Welcome Muttley! I hope Dick Dastardly isn't giving you too much of the run around these days!

...you're in good company...apparently, Albert Einstein once said...

"A question that sometimes drives me hazy: am I or are the others crazy?"

...a great question though; I'll give it some thought over the weekend....

... In love and light, Seagull!!

Hey Seagull...thank you!

DD is very much in retirement nowadays - but still as, er, dastardly! Lol.

The late great Einstein! Brains such as his are few and far between - unfortunately. They all seem to be pseudo scientists these days.

Let me know your conclusion and have a good weekend.

One and all, without exception
Muttley.

Madness I think I am!! So I've been told for many years anyway

Love this thread it sums up my present thinking down to a t!! Yes they are all mad!!

I was about to share a story of madness from Friday when I realised that it was not quite appropriate to share on here!!

Love to all
chat soon

Kerry

Hi there Muttley and all, Did some thinking about madness on the weekend! I guess the question is, “are ‘we’ the mad ones or are ‘they’?”. Now, the first thing that occurs to me is that, while keeping in mind that the statement is tongue in cheek so to speak, I feel that there is a need to bear in mind that any such statement is actually making a judgement…I am either judging myself as mad or the others as mad….the challenge is to move beyond such judgements and realise that much madness comes from the ego feeling threatened/pushed beyond the limits (more on this below).

I had a couple of synchronicities, this weekend in relation to madness; my thoughts/feelings about madness mirrored in my outer world.

On Saturday, I picked up A New Earth by Eckhart Tolle (going to his seminar in October) and he very eloquently outlines in the first chapter that the prevailing ego-centred culture of the past has been the norm; in fact, madness has been the norm. The mass of humanity has been living subconsciously with no objective awareness of their ingrained, automated behaviour …..they have no Observer as Openhand/Chris would say. So, it is no wonder that in the past, and even now, society views anyone who speaks up about this collective madness as being themselves mad…..the majority of humanity simply aren’t ready to accept that there is an alternative to what we see as their collective madness because it challenges who they see themselves as i.e. this challenges the ego. And of course, when we do speak up about the collective madness as we see it, in certain contexts, it is quite a brave thing to do. And, as we all know, people have been literally crucified or burned at the stake for speaking up. So the discussion of the ego and madness in A New Earth was the first synchronicity. The second event was on Sunday. I had taken the kids to the family service at church. Coming out of the church hall afterwards, a guy probably in his mid-late 30s came up to me…..he was gesticulating and speaking manically and making no sense at all…all I could say is “Are you OK?” to which he just ran back across the road, talking to himself and continuing to gesticulate wildly….I’d never seen him before and so it was the perfect lesson in what madness is. Of course, I had no idea of his story and I felt very sorry for him, but it did remind me what happens when the mind and the thoughts it generates take over; it rules everything and is uncontrollable…..the challenge is to use the mind/thoughts as tools in life, but to realise that it is not our identification with our thoughts and our minds that defines who we are…We are Human Beings - we are defined by our physical presence in the world - in human bodies - and by our state of Being (another point made by Tolle in his book).

Now, turning to us as awakening individuals on the path of spiritual evolution - when we become awakened, we enter this new state of Being and as we evolve along the path, there are very noticeable changes both physically and in the way we feel and this can be very disorientating and even give us the feeling of madness, since the experiences are so new and different. For example, there has been a discussion here on this forum about Kundalini activation and this can be very disorientating as amazing amounts of energy diffuse through the system - pins and needles, tingling in the limbs, throbbing of the head, light headedness, lack of grounding in day to day reality. I know following such a powerful experience, I was virtually incapable of functioning in the matrix of every day life for days. All I really wanted to do was withdraw from the world and sit on that proverbial park bench (like Tolle did). It actually took me several months to learn how to ground this energy. My body has now (mostly) adapted to this new state of Being and I can go about things day to day, but obviously with a much different level of consciousness that I had before. Even the “Peace that is Beyond all Understanding” - the feeling of absolute bliss and one-ness with All that Is can be disorientating…..the energy in the heart chakra is almost too much to bear at times....sheer bliss is almost painful. It can be so hard to talk about this stuff to close friends and certainly family members. I do have one person who I consider a spiritual partner/twin soul who I share my experiences with and she shares hers with me. She is both a mirror and a lens to how I feel. We all need such people in our lives as our great journey unfolds and this is why Openhand has proven so helpful to me…a group of souls who are all supporting each other and allow us to feel that perhaps we are not mad after all! And of course Chris’ book, which clearly signposts the path is also great for guiding us along and the OpenHand courses (which I would like to get to sometime). Finally, I just came across a book, which really looks like it fits the Bill with regard to this discussion thread - 'Am I Going Mad' - the Unsettling Phenomena of Spiritual Evolution By Marlyse Carroll http://www.amigoingmad.com.au/

In Love and Light
(And not a little madness!!)
Seagull

I find the thread on madness fascinating - thanks for contributing Seagull et al.
t, have you ever experienced madness? If so, it would be great to hear about it.

My own journey has been pretty tumultuous to say the least. I've experienced several powerful expansions of consciousness that blew apart everything I felt to be real. Every internal relationship that I had built to the world was completely shattered.

At times, this dumped me in places where I found it exceptionally difficult to relate to the world. I was tasting pure presence yet found I couldn't use out-dated neural pathways to communicate with people on the outside. These communication channels just didn't feel appropriate anymore. I had to be who I now was, not the someone I had once been. As a result, I found myself sectioned in psychiatric hospitals twice - although only for short periods.

The experiences in the hospitals although initially terrifying, were also absolutely fascinating and I now appreciate them as vital experiences for my journey - I was being given an 'at the coal face' understanding of what society might describe as psychosis and schizophrenia. In actual fact, I found the experience of schizoprenia a powerful tool for seeing the false self. In projecting different aspects of my ego outside of myself, I was able to dissolve that which is illusionary allowing the personality to become a seamless vehicle for the expression of the soul.

The hospitals answer to the 'problem' (actually an invaluable gift) was to prescribe drugs, which can seriously destabilise the experience or lock oneself into any one of the false egos. The first time I tried to resist, only to find myself strapped to a bed and injected against my will. Quickly I learned to accept the drugs but take them under my tongue and spit them out in the loo later.

Unfortunately many fellow inmates were not so blessed. I observed many people being locked into fragmented egos in this way.

In the work that we do here at Openhand, I've since encountered many people reliving karmic past lives, finding themselves in all kinds of pyschological trauma. I've found however, that if I just hold the space, apply intuitive questioning technique (with questions that are unique for every person *), together with focused energy work, the karma can quickly dissolve and 'sanity' is restored.

(*The questions have to be unique for everyone. No blanket solution covers all. To truly release karma, we have to bring people right to the edge. Too much energy can take them over the top. Too little is not enough.)

I can empathise with the view that there is no such thing as mental illness - that a clear mind unravels all. But it certainly doesn't feel so simple to many people experiencing it!

Chris

I do think there is such thing as mental illness. Only the mere fact that people died by exhaustion caused by 'psychosis' and/or mania implies that. But to call it madness, is the next step. Some people are only perceived as ill but are in fact just hypersensitive. They are sick in this way that they have to swim back against the stream to get back to high sensitive. In that way, psychiatric hospitals lock persons into 'fragmented ego's', as Chris says. They don't give those people the opportunity to go back to being high sensitive.

I had also a long journey. I may have not been as blessed as Chris to be able to escape from certain stuff 'right away', but I do feel blessed that I managed to go through a year of hospitalization (in total) and 1.5 year of total mental emptyness (at least I experienced it in that way) and to see myself now stronger than ever. I wouldn't want to have missed out on a single thing I experienced. I say 'yes' to what has happened (but what else could I possibly do?).

Today I work with people with 'mental issues'. I don't want to call them sick or weak although when this one schizophrenic person sometimes talks about a lot of 'strange stuff' I can't follow him anymore in his logic. I do think 'those people' think so much, that their brain can't cope but in fact they may be the most sane people around, as stated earlier.

My first diagnose was schizophrenia. I was labelled with it and treated for it. I had the heaviest anti-psychotics around. Thank god my brain wasn't paralyzed and I'm so thankful that I pushed through to be this almost complete like person today.

I've seen a lot. I had visions during my psychoses, my thoughts were so wide I can't even reach them now. But I do remember that divine feeling I had. And no one can tell me that that feeling was a hallucination. It was real. I have felt it. It was real. And who are doctors to take that reality away from me, simply because they can't find it to be true when they read their books.

/cheers

Thanks for sharing Pieter,

I feel the pain you've gone through. I remember well the first time I was admitted to the first hospital. I didn't want to go, in fact I fought really hard not to. In the end I was wrestled to the ground by several male nurses and injected in my butt! I embarked on a deep inner journey. Into a multiple level maze. At one point I found myself at the centre of the maze but with no exits. I knew on the outside I was incoherent, even on the inside thoughts were random and haphazard, yet curiously I'd gone beyond mind and in the centre of the maze was clarity.

I figured that if somehow I'd found my way into the maze, I could find my way out. Or at least I felt I could unravel the maze itself. Just the thought alone seemed to begin the process. I awoke many hours later strapped to a hospital bed. I'd found inner and outer congruency again although I was still pretty shaken up!

So in some ways, yes 'mental illness' begins in the mind and can be resolved there. However, I agree with you. For me it was no hallucination. It felt very real. Not only that, but I would say there are various chemical imbalances that happen internally which can bring on these particular states and I believe these experiences have to be dealt with in entirely different ways than simple dealing at the mental level - that would be far too simplistic.

We are multi-layered and faceted beings and must deal with our ultimate congruency through many layers.

Chris

1. Do you remember the movie “A beautiful mind” with Russell Crowe? It is based on the biography of the mathematician John Forbes Nash who with his doctoral thesis made a brilliant contribution to games theory when he was only 22 (in 1950). He was awarded the Nobel Price for it
44 (!) years later (in 1994) because it was only then that the true significance of his discovery was recognized. At around age 30 he was diagnosed with schizophrenia and spent a lot of his life in psychiatric hospitals. However, eventually he managed to recover from the disease and even remarried his wife who had divorced him because of his madness. The most amazing thing, however, is that in the end he was not really happy with being sane again. He said that the same mind-set that was responsible for his disease had also enabled him to develop his ground-breaking theory. Wikipedia expresses it in this way: ‘However, by 1995, he felt that although he was "thinking rationally again in the style that is characteristic of scientists", he felt more limited.’

2. Among the people who pointed out that a lot of the patients in psychiatric hospitals are in actual fact undergoing a spiritual crisis were Stan & Christina Grof. If I remember this correctly, Christina became an alcoholic during a spiritual crisis she went through and this led her to found the SEN = Spiritual Emergence Network which is designed to help people in 'spiritual emergencies'.

3. Personally, I had a phase in my younger years when I was afraid of going mad because we had a case in the family – a cousin who became manic–depressive and hanged herself in her mid-twenties in a psychiatric hospital. I was around 11 when my family took me to her funeral and I was not told anything at the time but had a very clear perception that something was terribly wrong and that everybody was frozen with shock. It would have helped me a lot to know what was going on but at such a young age I didn’t even know how to ask.

4. I think spiritual people are often deemed mad because they mirror to others their own fears: the fear of not belonging to society anymore, of ‘losing their minds’, of losing control, of irrationality (associated with the dark & the feminine). In the West, we tend to place the rational mind above all else so what will happen if it does not work the way it used to anymore – or not at all, for that matter?

5. Just a curious aside – I need a new ID and enquired about it. I was told that if I manage to get it done before Nov. 1, I can use a normal photo and am allowed to smile. After Nov. 1, I will need a biometric photo and will not be allowed to smile anymore. – In other words, we are officially turning into an unsmiling society – isn’t that mad?

Love to everybody,
Tasneem

It's an old question and topic for me - madness

How would you define mad?
By which parameters?
Relative to what?

Are people different from the average are mad?

..or those who feel themselves not fitting the average or what is thought to be normal?

What does the word mean at all?

What I think is that, like anything else in the world we are used to live in, it's the matter of reference and definition.

There are two possibilities:
Either the person himself feels as if he's out of the borders set by society - be it emotions, behavior or way of thinking; or the society considers somebody being out of the interval of 'proper' emotions, behavior, thinking, etc

Note, that not always madness causes suffering, but on the contrary, sometimes it might lead to individuum feeling joyous and happy, while the madman is not aware of himself being mad.

If you go beyond references, definitions, limitations and expectations, what you get is pure fact:

Somebody is feeling, doing or thinking something.

Take away the 'judger', the 'labeler', or the 'have to put it in some kind of box in my mind'....and madness is gone.

It turns to - ok, I feel something now...

Remove the judgment of any feeling or behavior, and madness suddenly disappears.

Just look how 'madness' is treated - you're given a medication to make you feel or at least behave in a normal way; or prevent you from disturbing the order of others, the normal people.

Try to get out of the 'adequate' and normal box - try even to get your nose out of it, and oops - you're suddenly mad!!! unexpected!!! frightening and dangerous to society!!!

The law does the same - let's lock these 'evil' people who don't want to play by our rules. Welcome to kindergarten!

I say: no judgement - no madness!

Long time ago I realized it, and since then I'm free from considering myself sick. This is when I finally could be myself, no medications since then, and I don't feel something with me is wrong...

But the most important thing - it helped me to accept myself, remove the references from my mind, and to get to know myself just as I am, and then to become friend to myself...

This is how my spiritual evolution has begun - from madness.

Just to conclude with, something amusing: There are two russian writers, Strugatsky brothers, in one of their books, scisophrenia diagnosed group of people are part of extraterrestrial delegation, because of their high sensitivity and capability to communicate on more levels than listen and talk... How is that for being mad?

Has Tasneem, thanks for reminding me of that wonderful film - yes a powerful watch for anyone.

John Nash came up with the theory of 'governing dynamics'. He believed there was a natural flow, an organising force through all events and circumstances - just as we believe here at Openhand. He went on to work our mathematical formulas for it which is no surprise to me at all really since everything is interconnected. Except to say, the formulas would have to be incredibly open and flexible to the infinitely changing dynamic.

He also said (essentially) that when we are following our own 'higher truth', we tend to align with a group dynamic that serves all. A beautiful mind indeed!

Chris

I watched the film recently too Tasneem. It offers a brilliant perspective on the inner workings of true potential. It's all a matter of perspective.
x

I am lead to believe that our brain is not so much a 'processing' mechanism of all our experiences, but more of a filtering system which it allows us to go about our daily lives as 'normal' human beings.

Am I right in saying that we - that is our brains - actually get bombarded with huge amounts of external information, which then is somehow filtered to a much smaller quantity of info, which in turn enables us to have our human experience? So our brain is effectively moulding our life perceptions based on limited and selected data?

So...when an individual experiences more or, all of the extra information from the external world, and this overloads our senses - we kind of malfunction in the eyes of the society? This in turn is then stalled or remedied by highly powerful drugs which, I assume brings back a certain amount of 'filtering' or, complete shut-down, of the individual so they may regain a degree of normality?

My limited experience with people who have mental health issues seems to suggest they have an internal/external dialogue with themselves or, another part of their being which we are not aware of.

Who are they communicating with? Is it just random internal talk just being externalised, or are they speaking with another part of their being which your average human cannot connect with or, indeed, has no knowledge of?

Sorry for all the questions but whenever I see these people, and feeling somewhat sorry for them, I really can't help but wonder what is really going on in their mind/world.

By the way...there are some really deep thinkers on this forum who can really communicate their ideas/knowledge/experiences - and I for one am truly grateful to you. (You know who you are;-) )

To one and all, without exception.
Muttley.

Hi Guys...loving this discussion. Such an important topic yet so misunderstood by most people.

I am reminded about a documentary i recently watched on Stephen Fry and his bi-polar disease. I was really moved by two people on the documentary. On man who was considered by society as mad and as a result threw himself in front of a truck and suffered devastating injuries, even though he himself believed that when he did have manic states that he felt that he was 'walking with angels'.

Another lady was afraid to have a second child as the doctors had told her that it was too dangerous as she had suffered postpartum psychosis after her first child. During this state she said that she had felt some kind of identification with Jesus and was overcome with a feeling of wanting to save humanity in some way. I remember the deep feeling of sadness as i watched the injustice that was being done to this woman. I recognised the intense fear in her eyes and felt sickened by a culture that was so confident in labeling her as 'mentally ill'.

After my own awakening i remember having one of those ah-ha moments about madness, and realising that it was only a concept whose definition had been produced by the limited cultural perspective in which i'd been brought up. It was only after my awakening that i understood clearly how myopic
people were; how constrained people are by the mindset from which they operate.

I have a decision to make right now in my life as to how i'm going to provide money for my family to live and to pay the mortgage. I no longer feel that i can work simply to pay bills, but instead feel i have to find a way to contribute to humanity in some way, whilst still paying the bills. I was considering training in mental health nursing. I'm not sure if that's what i'll do but this discussion will definitely influence the outcome in some way.

Love to you all xxx

Hi Mutley,

You ask some great questions about the brain - a filtering system you call it.

Yes the brain can be a filtering system when we're not functioning as an integrated whole. But in my truth it is not the brain that is supposed to be the filtering system but the soul.

The soul is our unique expression of pure presence - the Seer - everything/nothing. It takes a 'slice' of existence and provides experience through the relativity of separateness to wholeness.

This 'slice' of existence is then supposed to be channeled into and through the Seven Bodily Vehicles of Expression. It was always meant to be a free flowing multi-dimensional experience.

However, conditioning within the brain creates fixed neural pathways of behaviours. The consciousness of the soul is then sucked into these behaviours and is truncated from the universal flow. The brain is overcome by an overdose of 'excito-toxins' - society purposefully conditions us to life-styles. Then the brain begins to filter out the wider experiences of multi-dimensionality and our interconnectedness with all things.

Since our outer lives are the 'digital' projection of our inner state of consciousness, this limitation is then projected into our outer lives thus separating us from the living experience of all that we are.

The journey home again begins by letting go of the need for the outer reality to have a particular outcome. We become the observer of everything that is arising in our outer lives AND our inner reactions to this drama.

After a while of simple watching, we realise we have the power to interrupt the conditioned reactions and instead chose a more evolved response - a higher truth. The fixed neural pathways then break apart and the brains 'filter' - what we might call and 'inner child' and 'inner teenager' identity - the false self - begins to dissolve.

When these filters finally shatter, we have a massive kundalini awakening and are then reconnected with the soul in its fullness. Our lives rejoin the co-creative process of the universe. We're now acting on multiple dimensions of reality. We become truly human.

This process of direct personal experience inspired me to write the book "Five Gateways" providing an in depth route map about the overall process and how to catalyse it for ourselves (find out more about the book... Five Gateways)

Thanks for the great question.

Chris

Hi Eleanor/Chris

Eleanor...your last paragraph really strikes a cord with me because i'm having the same feelings as that; what is my real purpose and how to find it?

A little background.

For 23 years i worked for a police force as a civilian in various jobs whilst with the organisation. On the whole I was reasonably happy and contented with all life was offering me and the pay was ok but nothing special. This was my last employed job to date.

However, towards the last couple of years I was becoming more and more dissatisfied with my work, and somehow felt there should be more to my life than working a 9-5 and stuck in front of a computer screen. I was becoming more restless with authority within the working environment and as such my work was suffering. I wasn't doing set tasks on time, not recording info as I was meant to, forgetting to do things, and generally not functioning as the organisation wanted me to. Yearly appraisals were just a farce to me as all I was saying to my manager was all they really wanted to hear - but I didn't believe in any of it! (I have to add that for a few years my ego got carried away with all the 'i'm doing well, i'm important, i'm doing better than other locations and i wanted to be regarded as being good at what I did').

Anyway, to cut the story short I came to the conclusion work wasn't serving me on a person level (and only just about on a financial one). I wasn't happy and made the jump of leaving to pursue what I felt I wanted to do. (I was about as scared as they come when I finally made the jump - after 23 years of being with the same organisation it felt like jumping into the abyss!).

I have now started a business and am just about ticking over. It is very tough at the moment and i'm trying to find the right 'route-to-market' in order to progress. Financially we are very insecure - but on a personal level I felt the right move took place when I left the organisation.

My wife works full time for a well known supermarket chain and i feel she too is going through the same process as I did a couple of years age. She is not happy and i feel she needs to expand both personally and spiritually - indeed it seems to be happening naturally for her as time passes.

My experience of being employed and currently watching my wife going through the same process as I did, seems to suggest we are spiritually and emotionally boxed in by our circumstances. Especially constricted if one doesn't resonate with ones job, and if it controls you and dictates your life. Society and the system seems to constantly compress an individuals spiritual expansion - and that's even if an individual is aware of such a possible process of expansion! If they keep in their existence of the 'norm' and go about their daily affairs, it's no wonder people feel lost and browbeaten (whether they know it or not!).

Chris...do you have any advice for someone who is currently very inexperienced with following their real purpose in life, when all around them seems to do its best to suppress you?

I find it really hard following a path of awakening when my bills are building up, mortgage needs paying, kids need this and that etc etc?

I almost feel that the very system we live in really is constructed to suppress us so that we can't see the light and, thus, are unable, or blinded to, the fact that there is another way.

Chris, also, what is your view on the Laws of Attraction we seem to hear about so much nowadays? Is it real or just a very good marketing ploy? There certainly seems to be a rather large market out there for it and willing subscribers to the belief.

To one and all, without exception.
Muttley.

PS
Chris...I already have the your book but need to re-read as it takes ages for information to sink in with me. I certainly resonate with the beginnings of the book and feel this is where i currently reside on my awakening path.

Hi Muttley,

You ask some very pertinent questions. Ones that I know many are asking. Allow me to share my own feelings...

"Chris...do you have any advice for someone who is currently very inexperienced with following their real purpose in life, when all around them seems to do its best to suppress you?"

If I may say so, in all the coaching work I do, perhaps this is the hottest potato. What's my purpose in life? The key is to realise the purpose is not something we do. It is not a physical objective or way of living. It is a way of BEING. And every single moment offers an opportunity to either go with our conditioning, or hold an open space for higher beingness to come through.

"I find it really hard following a path of awakening when my bills are building up, mortgage needs paying, kids need this and that etc etc?

This is exactly my point. When the bill lands on the doormat we're faced with a choice: do we get tight and identify with the whole drama? or do we stay connected inwards and resist the temptation to close down. Viktor Frankl (who was an Auschwitz survivor) once said...

"Between stimulus and response there is a space...
In that space is our power to choose our response.
In our response lies our growth and our freedom."
Viktor Frankl

You say...

"I almost feel that the very system we live in really is constructed to suppress us so that we can't see the light and, thus, are unable, or blinded to, the fact that there is another way."

How right you are! Yes it is perfectly designed to take us out of the experience of the true self. In my own truth, there is an Opposing Consciousness actually generating and perpetuating this 'Matrix'. But that doesn't stop us overcoming it. In fact it can take us to the very epitome of beingness.

"Chris, also, what is your view on the Laws of Attraction we seem to hear about so much nowadays? Is it real or just a very good marketing ploy? There certainly seems to be a rather large market out there for it and willing subscribers to the belief.

In my view there is truth at the core of "The Law of Attraction" but must distortion as to how it is applied. It's almost as if it's been misrepresented to mislead people.

We are each like a camera projector creating the outer movie of our lives by what we're being within. And yes, whatever we hold inside - whatever fear, doubt or worry for example - we attract to ourselves for the purpose of learning and growth. We're being invited to let go of that which is buried within.

However in the work I've seen presented about it, the 'facilitators' suggest trying to manipulate our inner state of beingess to reflect the more desirable reality we might 'want' on the outside. This tends to create an illusionary bubble which can seem successful for a period. This is exactly what Opposing Consciousness have done in creating the Matrix - the society in which we live. To me, that energy pervades the work of "The Secret". But the bubble will ultimately burst because in effect, we're creating an illusionary reality divorced from the natural flow of the universe.

The key is to accept things as they are. To take responsibility for the reality we're creating and then to work to peel away the inner distortions which create tightness and disharmony in our lives. Then to allow authentic beingness to arise spontaneously from within. In which case, that which we truly are radiates outwards and continually creates vehicles of expression for that beingness - all of which are totally aligned with the natural flow of the universe. It's a win win situation!

Bliss!

Chris

Loving this discussion everyone...Chris' points about the lack of requirement to DO things, but to address the state of our Being is key....move into a new place, move to your Still Centre, allow your Beingnees to do what it needs to do...expand to create a field of higher consciousness around you...you don't need to do anything...just Be...you will attract the people/situations You need to attract, they will be in the right place at the right time.....by all means follow your path, but don't try and make it happen from the mind...go within, sit in silence and ask clear precise questions...but do this by feeling...

"Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day [is] the evil thereof."
Matthew 6:34

Your intuition will develop.....you will know when to take a step, to make the call, when to journey - synchronicities will manifest themselves...and you will be given many opportunities to notice,.....sometimes (mostly) you will gradually realise that the Universe has give you a message...the dots join up sometimes only in retrospect....but find the spaces in between, in between the rush, in between the hubbub...be quiet find the spaces in between:

Gregg Braden calls it The Mystery of the Space Between
http://www.greggbraden.com/newsletter/2006.html

"Regardless of scale, between the "beginning" and the "end", there is a moment in time when neither one has fully happened. That moment is where magic and miracles come from! In the instant of between, all possibilities exist, and none have been chosen. From this place, we're given the power to heal our bodies, change our lives, and bring peace to the world. All events originate from this powerful, magical moment."

It's a different way of functioning...the matrix is actually set up to allow us to discover our Beingness despite the matrix...and once you discover it, you will laugh out loud, the weight will be lifted....all is illusion in the end, but what a Beautiful illusion, what a Beautiful opportunity you are given....what potential you have inside to follow your path.....Just Be! Keep flying...

"Go to the Mountain,
And Jump off,
Only then will You Know,
You can Fly."

You know this already!

Remember, RubyLux and the song you posted Muttley...why did this song catch your attention and mean so much to you? Your inner Being knows what it needs!

In Love and Light!

Seagull

Hi Chris and thank you for your insight.

This is where I get a little confused about what is being described and, truly meant about our experience of reality.

Quote: -

"We are each like a camera projector creating the outer movie of our lives by what we're being within. And yes, whatever we hold inside - whatever fear, doubt or worry for example - we attract to ourselves for the purpose of learning and growth. We're being invited to let go of that which is buried within."

What i'm reading from your description is that we each internally create our outer reality (life) by the very function of 'thought'. Thought actually IS creating our life experiences and the majority of humans do so unaware of it?

Or should i be reading that our reality just happens and it's our RESPONSE to life's experiences that create our reality? That is what I understand when you quote Viktor Frankl.

Is it thought or response that moulds our outer world?

Sorry if you feel you've already answered this in previous posts, but I really need to get this into my head - the distinction is important to me and I need it in simple terms.

We seem to have digressed from the madness issue here, but in this small question I feel a certain amount of madness developing in me;-)

I'm beginning to spend far too long on this site! (but loving it).

To one and all, without exception.
Muttley.

Hi Seagull

Just missed your reply so i'll just go and read it and ponder (must ponder in order to understand! haha).

Muttley.

Seagull...

The more i read this stuff the more I get enveloped/engrossed by what it means to us collectively. (If it's what i'm understanding!).

Ok...a scenario: -

My wife is very unhappy within her work and loaths being there. She is unappreciated, manipulated, controlled and her life just revolves around 'the job'.

In her heart she says she KNOWS she should leave and really does FEEL the need to go. This feeling isn't on an intellectual level, it's a gut feeling.

We are currently financially challenged but her intuition is strong. However, making the leap of faith in such financially worrying times for us is exceptionally hard - we could literally lose our home etc, just based on faith!

This is where I get worried (again...no wonder I don't make sufficient advancements!) about some things being posted on here, because they have the potential for one to make judgements and actions based on a belief. (It has to be a belief until it is experienced by the individual and found to be correct - at which point it must be utterly profound if proven right!!!).

It has the potential to either blow ones mind away or, completely devastate an individuals life and their family.

If all is true and we are extraordinarily powerful beings who can evolve humanity for the better; then I want to be apart of it and I want people to know now. (Just like Openhand is doing here and now!).

To one and all, without exception.
Muttley.

Hi Muttley...My experience is not to push, to be patient, to non-effort - everything at its own pace..to everything there is a season to quote Ecclesiastes....work on Being and Doing will follow in my experience/truth....an expanded state of Being is an expanded state of consciousness and the Universe ultimately is pure consciousness. Being allows us to Do by the interaction of our consciousness with that of the Universe, but it is not achieved by rushing or impatience about a situation...First is Being, then is Doing....hope this helps/clarifies things a bit! Seagull

Just a return to madness and thoughts....Consciousness is not the same as thought...Using thought to visualise what we want, in my experience, doesn't work and is a pitfall of much New Age thinking (itself an irony).

Calming the thoughts, using thoughts as a tool, not allowing thought to control the mind, is the first step away from the 'collective madness' towards the transition into pure Presence, pure Being, Acceptance, Awareness, to find the You Are (the I Am), which is Beyond, Above and Below, Within and Outside your thoughts.

This is the (Quiet) eureka moment that allows your true path to manifest itself in your reality and is the source of your true power.....but it cannot be obtained, reached by effort, by force, by impatience...

Pure Presence, Pure Being allows us to be accepting of our place in the eternal moment, the knife-edged ridge, which is the Now. There is nowhere else you are supposed to be, but where you are and what you are Being/Doing Now...as soon as this understanding appears in your reality, the need to analyze, the need to depend on thoughts is transcended and decisions can be made in the moment, and then there will be no doubt that that decision is the right one at the right time, but such decisions are made from the heart, which is your centre of Being - such decisions are, indeed, intuitive..they are not emotional - emotion comes from the gut; the heart provides the feelings that are the language of the universe...once you Do from a State of Being, you shine your light around you and the universe becomes more malleable to your presence...it is infinitely intelligent and loving and will catch you in its hand like a precious raindrop that has fallen in the desert.....and the desert has driven many people mad...but that raindrop, however small, will quench your thirst....and do you see? The raindrop is You! .....You quench your own thirst!

You said "The more i read this stuff the more I get enveloped/engrossed by what it means to us collectively."

..what it means in my truth is that every time a raindrop settles in the hand of God...the raindrops fuse and merge and will eventually become a lake of collective higher consiousness that is a field of pure Presence/Being ...which contributes to the evolution of humanity back to The Source...

...I hope this helps.

Have a great weekend...
Seagull

Hi Muttley, (and Seagull)

Thanks for the postings - the thread is becoming fascinating and I'm sure very informative for all reading - Openhand is blessed!

You ask...

"What i'm reading from your description is that we each internally create our outer reality (life) by the very function of 'thought'. Thought actually IS creating our life experiences and the majority of humans do so unaware of it?"

I agree with Seagull. To me, he answered it perfectly...

"Consciousness is not the same as thought...Using thought to visualise what we want, in my experience, doesn't work and is a pitfall of much New Age thinking (itself an irony)."

Thought is a product of consciousness not the other way around. Indeed the "New Age" movement is using thought to try to manifest a new (supposedly more desirable) reality with work such as "The Secret" and "The Law of Attraction". I witness people trying this all around. What I observe them doing is getting partially into consciousness (you might like to watch this highly amusing but to me accurate account of the work... Puppetji on the Secret).

So for example, it is possible to project consciousness through thought into the surrounding energy field - at a 4th Dimensional level. This is exactly what the Matrix is. A network of fixed thought forms that most of humanity subscribe to. Even those who suffer at the hands of it still frequently believe in it which makes it real for them.

But the matrix is now unwinding itself. It's based on lower truth's of fixed ideas and beliefs - morale codes and life styles for example. But the universe is continually evolving and moving to higher vibrational states. Anything that is of such lower truth is being called into question and beginning to crumble.

Take the financial system for example. It is probably the greatest deception in the history of humanity. A small 'elite' organisation of people, decide to take control of resources available to everyone, then loan us money to buy the goods that belong to us anyway! What's more, the system itself can only survive by continual expansion. We need increasingly more debt to increase the money supply in the system to pay back the interest on the original debt (watch this fascinating explanatory video... Money as Debt).

Hence we get the explosion of Industrial Consumerism which is raping our earth. But it is a system of thought forms that simply cannot persist. Too many people are waking up and questioning it's very validity. Merely the questions alone are enough to send shock waves through the entire system. And it will only take a small percentage of us to curtail our consumerism before the whole system crashes. Just watch what happens 2011 and 2012 - we've only yet witnessed the tip of the Ice Berg.

So our consciousness, inline with that of the universe, will override any fixed thought form we care to intend. From my perspective, better to let go and let natural co-creativity arise from within.

Chris

...thanks Chris - excellent...I couldn't sleep last night...at least I did sleep, but then woke up realising that I needed to switch on the TV about 4 am....Sky was showing the Pope's visit yesterday....I have been critical of the Pope in the past (for the obvious reasons); difficult not to be judgemental about this particular issue.

I was fascinated by the fact that he, the Pope, and the Archbishop of Canterbury were holding a service together in Westminster Abbey...this seemed to transcend the madness of Protestant V Catholic....finally?

I must admit, I was a bit overcome by this.....I felt that the old ('mad') ways really are beginning to unravel...there really is no excuse after that for the old ways of sectarian conflict to have any justification by the people who want the conflict to continue. And in Westminster Hall (another important building in the Catholic Vs Protestant polarisation), the politicians were there like primary School children at assembly time...is it possible that his aura/energy will actually have some affect on them?...it seemed to me that this is a guy who definitely has a Presence about him (but if I he didn't, I guess he wouldn't be pope).

Now, I appreciate that there is a HUGE way to go, but this struck me as a change for the good...that a new set of possibilities had been set in motion from that moment....

"Maybe I'm a Dreamer, but I'm [hoping] I'm not the Only one!"

What do you think Chris....more of the same old illusion of the Matrix or some Hope after all? I guess, there's always hope....

Seagull

PS I think I need to take some time away from this for the rest of the weekend (much as I'm enjoying this thread), to let the dust of my thoughts settle again....meditate a bit, go for a run, spend time with the kids and get a good nights sleep!

I guess you could say there's always 'hope' Seagull (as long as 'hope' doesn't become a desire led thing of course!).

Personally I observe that there are really very few who are truly connecting and moving with this shift in consciousness. There are many waking up, but certainly at the moment, it seems very few walking the path.

I do find the Pope's visit fascinating. Like the fact that the trip almost had to be abandoned because we couldn't raise the 'paltry' £8 million it costs to get him here on a state visit. Whatever happened to Easyjet!

Besides fascinating, in the grand scheme of things, I find it almost an irrelevance. Yes I witness some leaders within the Matrix beginning to look for a 'better way forwards' - sustainable development for example. When to me what we really need is a sustainable retreat - to me, it's not about find greener ways to continue consuming what we do, but consuming less - much less!

Personally I don't believe those in leadership currently have sufficient courage or foresight to really do anything meaningful (and neither do the vast majority in society). But it really doesn't matter that much anyway. I see our society being caught soon within a 'tripple whammy' of climate change, financial credit crunch and peak oil. I see the progressive collapse of society, and rapidly dwindling natural resources including dwindling arable land.

I see human population radically reducing in numbers towards the middle and end of the century (way below 1 billion people). I see that the only real way to ultimately survive the changes will to evolve and become fully 5th Dimensional. Yes there will be those hanging on in geo-domes and digging structures under the ground, but more advanced evolution to me is the future.

I feel we're past the 'tipping point' and this triple whammy is going to happen now anyway, whatever people in society do. I'm actually quite relieved by the prospect of it. The Matrix simply cannot continue - it has imprisoned too many souls for too long. It's definitely time for change and this change will be inevitable no matter what we do.

To me the real question for evolving people is, are we ready to truly let go of all that we think we know and simply ride the changes as they happen?

Chris

.Again, great stuff Chris....I do believe however that the few who are waking up are having a dramatic effect on the majority and the matrix we/they inhabit...we may not believe we are doing anything active or even constructive, but the very expansion of our consciousness, which is impinging on the collective consciousness is raising the frequency - the energy levels - and it is this which is dismantling the matrix of density! We must not underestimate our own power when we Are in that enhanced/expanded state of Being..society may judge us as mad, but we know better..as you quite rightly say, the triple wammy is upon us...
....went against my own statement and posted again...fascinating stuff.
Seagull

I don't disagree with you at all Seagull in terms of us breaking down the matrix. But from my perspective at least, that's only the beginning of the story. Even with the matrix broken, each person still has to walk the path and have the courage and commitment to break down the embedded neural pathways.

I have to say I've witnessed time and time again that when a person is presented with a Gateway, how so few really have the courage to step through. I don't wish to sound pessimistic, in fact I'm actually an eternal optimist, but above all else, I'm a realist. I work seven days a week and often for 20hrs a day in this field and that's the result of what i see and experience.

But I always hold out the possibility that all 6 Billion of us could change to tomorrow. I don't work in finalities until the moment actually lands but at the same time, I don't find it beneficial to watch where the energy appears to be moving.

I welcome your optimism - I find it is influencing me internally. It is activating an aspect of truth. Let's see what unfolds!

Thanks for the dialogue

Chris

I felt like relating to the subject of being afraid to loose houses, cars, and whatever we are afraid to loose, and dealing with problems.

I beleive it's one of the first things that arise when we "hit" the target I mean, when we step our foot on our path.

One of the greatest things that I experience sometimes (in pulses) is the scense of absolute freedom.

Examples:
During many years I was suffering from abandonement anxiety (I was afraid of being abandoned by my boyfriend/husband) and being terrified by a thought how am I going to survive alone?!! :0 Until this year, after working on it for couple of years (being aware of it), I felt free, I suddenly wasn't grasping anymore, wasn't afraid and wasn't dependent.
And the question - how am I going to survive fell away - I don't mind not to survive if that's what is meant to happen.
I'll just do whatever I will feel to do at specific moment/situation, that's all.

Another example:
A couple of weeks ago I was on my way to hospital, emergency, I lied there on a couch and felt my body weak, I could barely move... So I was lying there and I felt FREE, uplifted and blessed... I didn't care to die, while being aware of my body and kind of appreciating it.
But , as if it was a joke, everything was ok with my body, so was I just put through some kind of test? exercise? it's not important... But see the picture: I feel like I'm going to die, accepting the idea fully, surrendering to it and find the bliss, and then I'm told "no problems anymore"...

I know it sounds like some kind of 'mission impossible',
I too, get confused and scared sometimes, but with time I see there is nothing to be afraid of.

I think, correct me if I'm wrong, that gradually anybody and everybody who will dare to walk the path and surrender totally and absolutely to the higher forces, higher guidance and will trust it completely, will find himself one day FREE and FEARLESS.

These fears, I think are a good sign, the lower mind is used to take everything under control, and now it has to learn how to give way to something else. This habit won't die easily, but with patience and perseverance it will. And with it fear and distrust will go away too.

Then all those things that we are tought they are the most important, all those things we struggle and fight so hard to protect, will suddenly shift to a background, a noise,
and we will get to a place of absolute freedom, safety and bliss.

I think so because more and more frequently I get this state, and I think with time the frequency increases until it feels like a continuum.

In the meantime the body and the lower mind are gradually reconstructed and reconfigured, it takes some time...

Also, the changes most of the time are unseen, and only after a while, after some period you suddenly see you're someplace else, you are someone else.

To summarize it all:
1. It's a good sign - the fear and confusion. The mind is moving out of the way (thanks Chris for the lesson )
2. This is time to learn to trust and open to a new way of dealing with things - the spontaneous way (even if it feels and looks like a disaster)
3. Giving time to processes - it's one of the habits to push things, to hurry up, to see everything clearly, to get 'yes or no' answers... How about just let things happen? Let the next moment reveal itself as it is and when it's coming, without pushing? Just to wait and see what's coming next - like in a movie.I found it's really fun, living every day in curiousity, as if every day there's a present, a wrapped gift is awaiting.

P.s:
I saw this movie Baraka, where they show people digging in garbage to survive, people on the streets...people living in tribes, skinny with flies all around..

And then the movie has shots of 'us', the urban people. After seeing this, I'm not sure it's so worthy to be afraid of loosing, we look the least happy, the 'morgage' people.

What is there to be afraid to loose, we don't know what is lying ahead, maybe it's good to loose the house and find some other way/place to live. Maybe there is gift behind the worst scenario possible, and only time will show.

This for you Chris...

The Lord does move in 'mysterious ways' (in view of our previous dialogue)...I just got back from church and today's readings as follows:

Old testament - from Jeremiah (the original prophet of doom!)

Something for Chris....

Jeremiah 8:18-9:1

The Prophet Mourns for the People

18 My joy is gone, grief is upon me,
my heart is sick.
19 Hark, the cry of my poor people
from far and wide in the land:
‘Is the Lord not in Zion?
Is her King not in her?’
(‘Why have they provoked me to anger with their images,
with their foreign idols?’)
20 ‘The harvest is past, the summer is ended,
and we are not saved.’
21 For the hurt of my poor people I am hurt,
I mourn, and dismay has taken hold of me.

22 Is there no balm in Gilead?
Is there no physician there?
Why then has the health of my poor people
not been restored?

9*O that my head were a spring of water,
and my eyes a fountain of tears,
so that I might weep day and night
for the slain of my poor people!

The sermon was then about the financial crisis in Ireland and how no-one listened to the people (prophets of doom) who predicted the Financial crisis and the death of the Celtic tiger here...and...so Chris, you are in good company with Jeremiah! It is good to be a realist as it keeps us grounded....

On the other hand....

Today's NEW Testament Reading from Luke 16, 10

....something for the optimists...

"He who is faithful in very little things is faithful also in much"

..so, yesterday, I sat on my favourite rock looking out to sea, suddenly, seemingly from nowhere, a tortoiseshell butterfly appeared from the direction of the sea, fluttered around me in several swoops and circles for a bit and then continued on up over the cliff....I felt in my heart this was a blessing...I was at the right place at the right time and from what I remember, butterflies are symbols of spiritual transformation and awakening of the soul and, indeed, last weekend, the laurel hedge outside our house was in full flower (itself unusual...climate change?), but the flowers were absolutely covered in swarms of tortoiseshell butterflies.....I had never seen that before and I have lived here 3 years and a neighbour who has lived here for 20 years, said he had never seen that in all that time...I sat quietly and meditated on that and it became apparent to me that the butterflies are indeed symbols of collective human transformation and that it is indeed happening despite the fact that it is difficult to believe (it was also encouraging to read about Lei's dream of collective human ascension on a different thread)...so, if I go around at work talking about the messages of the butterflies I will definitely be labelled as mad, but the universe is always giving us messages to encourage our love, our peace and our optimism to unfold.....

Finally, my son, who is learning to read, read me the first page of Harry Potter book 1 this morning...a message there as well:

"Mr and Mrs Dursely of number four Privet Drive, were proud to say that they were perfectly normal, thank you very much. They were the last people you'd expect to be involved in anything strange or mysterious because they just didn't hold with such nonsense" and...

"When Mr and Mrs Dursley woke up on the dull, grey Tuesday our story starts, there was nothing about the cloudy sky outside to suggest that strange and mysterious things would soon be happening all over the country."

..that JK Rowling was pretty clued in when she wrote that....

It's quite apparent that the Dursleys of this world living in their Privet drives will have to wake up and become a little mad....it might take a while, but I still believe it will happen...

In love and light Seagull

PS Interesting post Someone...keep opening your heart and allowing the universe to pull you in the right directions and then will you follow the compass of your destiny! you are correct, it is not about pushing!

Hi guys n gals, or should i say guys and gulls!

Just found this really funny clip on YouTube. Wasn't sure where to post it but as this thread was originally about madness it seemed relevant:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiS8j-GPPYg

Another source of optimism and a book that definitely should be on every (often) despairing person's reading list is Spontaneous Evolution by Bruce Lipton (like me, a Developmental/cell biologist)

http://www.brucelipton.com/spontaneous-evolution-overview

"We’ve all heard stories of people who experienced seemingly miraculous recoveries from illness, but can the same thing happen for our world?

According to pioneering biologist Bruce H. Lipton, it’s not only possible, it’s already happening. We are surrounded by the proof that we are poised to take an incredible step forward in the growth of our species. In Spontaneous Evolution, this world-renowned expert in the emerging science of epigenetics teams up with political philosopher Steve Bhaerman to offer a new and hopeful story about humanity’s evolutionary destiny."

Evolution occurs in quantum leaps and contrary to what the neo-darwinists/Dawkins groupies would like us to believe, it is not due to random DNA mutations and pure chance (not that I need to convince anyone here of this).

We can look at the challenges facing us as an opportunity to spontaneously evolve and, given our unique position in time and space around 2012, with potentially massive amounts of energy coming in from the cosmos, evolution will accelerate and adapt....just like the butterflies on my hedge that were able to harvest nectar from the flowers that have only usually been there in the spring, we can/will also evolve rapidly and, indeed, this is what is happening to everyone on the planet - each at their particular level on the spiritual evolutionary ladder (not to judge anyone for whatever stage they are on on the path, but everyone is evolving whether they know it or not)...there just needs to be a (relatively) small proportion of people who become tuned in to the new 5D reality to spread that knowledge to the rest (but, again, not an active process).....it's the same principle as fish knowing where they are in the shoal - they are simply receiving information from the leaders who have the information about the directions they are taking (same with birds in flocks...).

Evolution is a driven/active process and it is driven by the intelligence of the universe - Rupert Sheldrake (former head of Biochmestry and cell Biology at Cambridge and now is currently Director of the Perrott-Warrick project for research on unexplained human and animal abilities) is another beautiful thinker in the field of new biology (and many of his peers think he's mad!)

See his web site: http://www.sheldrake.org/homepage.html
"Rupert Sheldrake, one of the world’s most innovative biologists and writers is best known for his theory of morphic fields and morphic resonance, which leads to a vision of a living, developing universe with its own inherent memory."

Sorry, my passions have got the better of me again! Hope you find these links of interest...
Seagull

Love that YouTube clip Elle...Namaste! The Gull

Chris, you said...

"I welcome your optimism - I find it is influencing me internally. It is activating an aspect of truth. Let's see what unfolds!"

I am genuinely delighted about this Chris....and, again, I have appreciated the dialogue....I just want to add though that I truly appreciate that each of us is on a journey to find our own truth beneath the layers of illusion.

I enjoy the opportunity to philosophise here with all you guys in an open, meaningful and deeply profound way. I am a lecturer, so I have to watch myself in coming across too 'teachy' or 'preachy' at times! My intent is to state my truth through the lens of my Being and it is great to have Openhand as a mirror for my ramblings!

In love and light and sincere gratitude to you all.

Seagull

Hi Seagull,

I think you've misunderstood me slightly. For me, 'hope' is an illusion. It is based on desire, however subtle. You see I live in the here and now, in the real. I have come to deliver a message - one of the real. I don't expect anyone to take it on trust, but I do invite people with whom I engage to truly test their inner feelings around it (not their thoughts)...

In 2012 there will be no huge infusion of energy or consciousness. In my reality this is just wishful thinking. In fact the earth has been moving to this higher paradigm for many years. As the earth, sun and galatic centre align, it will not be much different than any other day/time - except that is unless mankind decides to make something 'big' out of it.

That's not to say there won't be big shifts going on over the coming decades - there indeed will be. But not some mass awakening because of some extra infusion of light.

Higher consciousness has been pouring down this higher light for eons. But who is actually tuning into it? And I don't just mean the kind of wishy washy 'love is all there is' stuff. That's great, but what about profound truth?

To me, it is not whether this increases or not, it is about our willingness to go inwards and unravel our restrictions to sense it - and by that I mean profound truth. I work in this arena 24/7. I am constantly coaching people and watching or working with others. Many people are being gifted the opportunity to evolve - in fact all of us - but few are as yet being really profoundly honest with themselves.

Yes people are awakening, but what happens after that? Do you have the courage to confront ALL your distortions in every single moment? Even the little things whilst you're brushing your teeth or making a cup of tea. Where is your presence? What distortions are arising? What's your highest truth in this moment? and the next and the next and....

And to me, it is a complete illusion to think that someone else can raise our vibration and then we stay in that new place. That may happen for a limited period, but unless we've processed out all our own inner darkness, then this consciousness will simply bring us back again in the future. No one can save us but ourselves.

I find wishful thinking is damaging to our process. It is seemingly causing many people just to 'wait for the shift'. But the shift happens because we find it in ourselves and apply the courage and commitment to unravel our destiny with our own hands.

I felt it vital to offer this contradictory point of view because here at Openhand, we are given to connect people to 'the real' the 'here and now'. When we do this, hope and wishful thinking are simply not necessary. They're a distraction, an irrelevance, because we actually feel the movement of truth and align with it. Then our Ascension becomes inevitable.

So here at Openhand guys, I encourage all to continue the inner inquiry. Be not distracted by the fanciful or glamour, wishful thinking or hope. Stay with what is, however seemingly insignificant that might seem. Even just a subtle inner vibration - when we attune to it - can unravel into something miraculous. As Soc says in this wonderful clip from Peaceful Warrior..."When you throw out the trash, you'll be amazed at what you can do and how well you can do it"...

Chris

As an adjunct to this post, synchronistically I'm pulled to the "Authenticity" thread. Take a look at this post by Yulia (someone) to observe the kind of profound self honesty I'm referring to... http://www.openhandweb.org/160910_are_you_being_absolutely_authentic#com...

Chris

Hi Chris....thanks for the sharing - I genuinely appreciate your insights and the reminder and appreciate that you see the reality of awakening people every day. I actually agree with virtually everything you said...maybe our "wires are crossed" slightly . Maybe our definitions/use of hope and faith are not the same.

You said "...at Openhand, we are given to connect people to 'the real' the 'here and now'. When we do this, hope and wishful thinking are simply not necessary. They're a distraction, an irrelevance, because we actually feel the movement of truth and align with it. Then our Ascension becomes inevitable."

I completely agree. What I call my hope for the future arises in me from my genuine experience of "actually feeling the movement of truth and aligning with it" and its reflection in the outside world around me...I experience the synchronicities and experience that state of Being that confirm my path is true for me.

But, I also believe that there are very many highly evolved souls around at the moment who are writing books and sharing their insights and I am fascinating (at an intellectual level) with what they have to say. I always try to notice how what I read resonates with me on the inside - I try to use this as a yardstick, so I am combining my intellect with my feelings/state of Being.

I still believe that I live in a world where there is hope that the madness will end, and I have faith in a better future for humanity because I see ordinary decent people making progress in there every day lives, however seemingly slowly and unconsciously.

I still believe that once a critical mass of people reach a certain level of awareness (and I believe that this is an exponential process) that spiritual evolution across the planet can and will snowball. Also, I look at my children - I see what evolved souls they are - and I am genuinely hopeful for the future in that respect too.

But, I completely agree that there is no point in living in 'cloud cuckoo land'. The moment - Now - is where we live. I am certainly not a subscriber to the End Time Ascension thesis, stating that highly evolved souls will simply disappear in to the 5th dimension on Dec 31 2012 for example!

I'm sure these are issues that a lot of readers of this wrestle with, so I think this dialogue has been very useful (not least for me).

With appreciation for your deep insights and blessings to you and all at Openhand again.

Seagull!

PS Love the Peaceful Warrior clip - thanks.

Chris, you said:

"I have to say I've witnessed time and time again that when a person is presented with a Gateway, how so few really have the courage to step through. I don't wish to sound pessimistic, in fact I'm actually an eternal optimist, but above all else, I'm a realist. I work seven days a week and often for 20hrs a day in this field and that's the result of what i see and experience."

While I certainly see a lot of people using spirituality just to adorn or enhance their egos and I have seen teachers become disillusioned when they saw how engrained people's patterns are, I would at least like to make a few additions.

When 'a person is presented with a Gateway' - isn't that to some extent like being pregnant? The baby wants to be born at some point and you can't keep him/her in there forever, can you? Yes, you could have an abortion or the baby could be stillborn, but there are not many more possibilities at hand. You can't really go backwards to where you were before, even if it may take you a long time to say yes to what's growing inside of you. And yes, you may kick and scream at times about how hard the whole thing is, but you also feel this new life stirring in you which pushes you forward with incredible force. So for how long can you prevent this from happening? (As you may guess, this is kind of a personal question).

Secondly, is it just a matter of courage? Isn't there also always an element of grace involved in passing through a gateway - which is why no teacher can make it happen or tell when it is going to happen? - How about those people who have kundalini awakenings without having a clue what's happening to them? Nobody ever told them about coiled serpents at the bottom of their spines and they have the hardest time trying to figure out what the hell... They couldn't summon any courage because it hit them like a lightning bolt.

Well and what courage exactly? Yes, to be honest, that's really important, but I feel it's also like a trial and error game. When you err, you suffer, which is a good motivation to be more aware next time, and thus it goes back and forth hopefully leading to a resolution at some point.

And finally: is the 'initiation' you receive always clear enough for you to know it has been one?

Hi Tasneem, thanks some for some great questions

Perhaps I should begin by saying although I've seen quite a number of people look into a Gateway and then turn away, I am certainly not disillusioned. I did get that way a little in the beginning I have to admit, but of course that was just my own process. I realised that even to help just one other person is a blessing and in actual fact, I've helped and witnessed many wonderful unfoldings in my time so far. So although I'm being real, I am also an optimist about it all!

I liked your metaphor of 'spiritual pregnancy'...

"When 'a person is presented with a Gateway' - isn't that to some extent like being pregnant? The baby wants to be born at some point and you can't keep him/her in there forever, can you? Yes, you could have an abortion or the baby could be stillborn, but there are not many more possibilities at hand."

Essentially, to me, there is much truth in this. However, we're in a very interesting time and space right now. In my reality, humanity is been caught in a seemingly endless eddy pool where souls are continually going around the same repetitive loop. This is in some ways 'holding back the universe'. Contrary to popular belief, all souls are NOT eternal. There comes a point when it is simply not productive to keep going around the cycle without progressing. There is a process which then reintegrates such 'stuck souls' back into the source. They are dissolved out.

I once reached the point on my own journey were such a 'deletion' was an option. It held no fear for me. Yet to continue to live is an absolute blessing. I chose to stay. In staying, I find it in my heart to help people continue to progress and become eternal - to experience eternal blessing. So in answer to your question, although it is destined for each soul to become immortal, that doesn't stop people from denying their destiny. It happens all the time.

You say...

"Secondly, is it just a matter of courage? Isn't there also always an element of grace involved in passing through a gateway - which is why no teacher can make it happen or tell when it is going to happen?"

I couldn't agree more. To me, in many ways, courage and grace are very similar attributes. On very key occasions in my life, where I've found myself in a powerful transition, time has seemed to stop, all has become silent, there's a coolness in the 'air', a stilling of the breath and heartbeat. There's a knowing something 'big' is about to happen. At that point, it is a sense of grace that gives me the courage to continue.

Like when I had my own Kundalini Awakening happen which put me in a psychiatric hospital. It was grace that gave me the courage to endure what then took place and come out the other side smiling!

And to answer your final question about initiation. An initiation/Gateway is a very clear shift of consciousness followed by a definite correspondent change in our outer world (one follows the other). There may be many smaller shifts on the route to a Gateway but when you actually pass through one, there will be a realisation that something quite powerful has shifted within you and there's no going back (unless we stop giving attention to our new state of beingness).

Sometimes, a Gateway can be fairly gentle, and we could miss the outer signs that something has changed. But I'd say this tends to be the exception - it is more likely the case that we've simply had a 'taster'. Like many people across our planet right now are only at the 'pre-Awakened' state. They've had a taster of awakening and are now seeking the first Gateway. They may have a wonderful intellectual understanding of what the spiritual path is about (thanks to the plethora of well intentioned books), but actually, they're not really in an Awakened state - although they may think they are.

Once again, to me, this is the profound value of the Five Gateways route-map. It helps ensure people don't get caught in blind alley ways.

I trust this answers some of your questions.

Much love and blessings

Chris

Tasneem you said

"I think spiritual people are often deemed mad because they mirror to others their own fears: the fear of not belonging to society anymore, of ‘losing their minds’, of losing control, of irrationality (associated with the dark & the feminine)"

Excuse me please if this is already covered in the following leads but I feel I have to answer this in my words

I have been reading the Divinchy code by Dan brown, it just had to be read the other day, The story involves the Priory of Sion, a secret society who carry the secret of Christ and pass this information on to keep it alive. I am aware it is a fictional book, but it does state all secret societies are truly described in the book. I do know I need to read more about this. So any that are more informed than me are welcome to comment and educate me further.

In my awakening state I am finding some real power to the words through the story, it goes to why your words "the dark & the feminine" caught my attention. The basics of the story for anyone not in the know!! are that before 'the Christian religion' was born we had equality, a balance of masculine and feminine. Yin and Yang, a completeness to the world, sorry need to digress my music just started a song, which has the words

"Girls can wear jeans and cut there hair, wear shirts and things, cos its okay to be a boy. For a boy to look like a girls its degrading, because you think being a girl is degrading, but secretly you would love to know what its like wouldn't you??
What it feels like for a girl."

Later in the song it says "when you open up your mouth to speak could you sound a little weak?."

the words of the song go to where I feel, equality is where I want to be, and where I feel the world should be, I am not a threat to men I am just strong in myself my personal struggle with 'sanity' during my marriage and all the marijuana smoking around me and by me distorted my whole vision of my true self.

I was drowning in distortions for a few years I have little memory of that time, apart from when the tares started and my breakdowns in front of people, trapped in a small flat, engulfed by the trappings my husband needed to survive, his remote controls never far from his hands, my sleep disturbed constantly, and my thoughts controlled by his constant rants negativity swallowed me whole for many years until someone grabbed me out of my pit and gave me some space in the form of a house to live in!!

The expansion was so massive even my ex husband noticed through his smoke filled brain that I was going through a change to find myself again. Hence he is now ex, it had been about this time I had a conversation with a friend of his who gave me a new view of who 'god' is. I have always struggled with the mainstream concept! It was very similar to the story about unity consciousness I heard from Chris at the summer retreat.

The divine feminine is how Dan Brown says the Priory of Sion see's women, they do not perceive woman as a threat, like my ex husband and many other men throughout society, this was fuelled by the powerful men that were rising through the church, which was started by Jesus and Mary Magdalene, she was supposed to carry it on after his death. Men who used the bible to distort the view of woman through the ages, Mary Magdalene recast as a whore, and so started the fall of woman in society, I feel woman should be celebrated and men should be celebrated equally, what is the the unity of consciousness if not a celebration?

I have met a man recently who I feel this bond with, it is not material and I do not feel I need to be in his presence constantly we are linked in some way through the conscious. It reminded me of why men feel threatened too, the orgasm is a powerful thing, it blots out all conscious thought, is this the thing that those men were scared by?? For me it is not an essential part of union between the masculine and feminine in their exchange of energy, a balance needs to be found to make the masculine energy of this world with its wars and scarring of the Gaia transform to a balanced place where we have some kind of harmony.

So the fears are truly entrenched into the society make up of today, what a massive distortion just because of the jealousy and fear of a few men thousands of years ago.

I see fear everyday, its in peoples eyes, in ther actions. I almost want to shake them and say wake up. I know it will do no good, I will just stick to my journey for now, I have a lot of growing still to do. I have to fully find myself before I feel I can help the others still in the matrix.

Your thoughts would be great on this subject

Love Kerry

Hi Chris,
always enjoy our dialogues and find them helpful, thank you!

Hi Kerry,
good to hear from you! I think this idea came from studying feminist literature in the past. It seems quite obvious to me that a lot of the problems /madness we are facing right now are due to the dominance of the male over the female principle (yes, men over women, too, but it is more about the archetypal energies). The sacred feminine (for me symbolised for example by the kind of surrender Chris keeps pointing out: 'waiting for things to unfold by themselves')has been violated, feared and ignored (by women, too) so that we are now faced with a huge imbalance that we need to rectify.

If you are interested in the workings of these two principles in history, there is the commendable classic by Riane Eisler, "The Chalice and the Blade" which gives a potentially positive outlook for the future.

At first I was thinking about it the other way round: during Victorianism, for example, because of all the repression that was rife at that time, a lot of women turned mad. (The common argument, though, was that they were more susceptible to mental & emotional breakdowns because of their supposedly weaker intellect and their 'fragility'!)

19th century literature is full of examples, e.g. Charlotte Perkins Gillman, an early American feminist, wrote the famous story "The Yellow Wallpaper" (about a woman whose confinement leads to the deterioration of her mental health) as a criticism of the 'rest cure' she was prescribed for postnatal depression.

It is interesting to delve into these subjects.

Love,
Tasneem

P.S. I envy you guys (more people from our group are coming back in October) but I definitely won't make it so I'll have to trust that this is right.

I will have to find some books on the subjects, im feeling starved of knowledge. A lot of my books got lost to my second marriage and I bought very few while I was married to him, there was no room cos of all the videos and dvd's. I feel like it stunted my growth to be around that perpetually. I also feel the need to let books come to me, I like people suggesting some titles thanks for these, very interesting synchronicities attached to both titles.

Everyone wants to pass me novels to read, which are great for a bit of escapism every now and again, I need to use my time more wisely to learn and open up to new thoughts right now. The old patterns of my life are no longer interesting to me. Zoning into the goggle box does nothing for me now either. I watch one programme a week intentionally. And my kids ask for permission to turn it on now too (mostly)

As you said fragility of women!! I would love to see men give birth!! We may have a much smaller population then ~ Quite possibly! Or is that an outdated concept for my old life??!! And it takes a lot of courage to show emotions and admit pain, I know, it has taken me by surprise how hard it can be to release them!! And at times how easy to let flow.

After I gave birth to my two oldest children I was diagnosed with post natal depression, its a convenient label I do believe for the breakdown of communication within a relationship, we get busy getting on with our lives and forget to heal and attend to the person we are with and ourselves. Doctors just tried to fill me with pills, which I didn't take, it didn't feel authentic funnily enough there is a link to a flow of this site right now!!

Interestingly I did some body work with John the other night, I didn't even realise before that I knew how to do it,it just arose from some place deep within me, if only I had this connection with the fathers of my children and other parents had this connection together then we would not have this desolation of emotions after the birth of our children, its like a loss has happened for some, I know that's how I felt for me, I had lost something of myself in this weird edi~current, I got trapped. .

I felt forgotten, I lost my identity immediately on the birth of my first child. Even my parents forgot I had a name!! It never helps your emotional state when you are abandoned by your partner three months down the line with this whole new role, and no great ideas how to do it.

Anyway I know what im doing these days, getting much better with guidance from the good souls on this site and making me think about my actions and the new world to come.

Thank you to all who have helped me of late.

Love Kerry