Hi Vaso
In some ways it feels quite positive. What I get a sense of is a taste of the void, the 'nothingness' beyond all experience; but perhaps is there a part of you that isn't comfortable with that? that wants it to be a certain way? Can you be with that?
I might be wrong, maybe it is some kind of "defence mechansim" as you said, and you mention your emotions. but I feel it could be a taste of The Nothingness that is The Seer, that is beyond emotion and 'experience'.
Does that resonate? How do you feel about it?

Ben

Hi Ben,

Thanks!! I dont know about that. i feel im in early stage in my journey. Im more comfortable with what i feel now.
I have a question, it sounds a bit disconnected with the subject. What self love is? I mean i read nice quotes about it before, but practically what self love is?
I feel i never truly loved me because i was 'loving', 'fake' things about me (if i can say it that way). So now i am not what i used to be, i feel im actually no one and i can't describe me (again if thats the right way to say that) Its like there is nothing to love, or not to like. So if i feel that way what self love is? or how do you find self love?

Thanks
Vaso

Hi Vaso,

I'd say self love is complete self acceptance and the experience of that. It arises naturally when we stop loving, or trying to love, the 'fake' things about ourselves.

Chris

Hi Chris

from all the quotes i read about self love, this was the clearest answer

Thanks
Vaso

Im just wondering, which things are fake about ourselves? which things are real?

.

Great question Cody!

In my view, when the soul has evolved beyond attachment to a false self ego, then it can express in a totally liberated, unhindered and authentic way. The free flowing expression of our "soul ray harmonic" then is what's real. What's fake is where that flow gets blocked, distorted or fragmented in some way as it passes through the bodymind.

Chris

Wow, that makes complete sense.

The impermanent ego, and the immortal soul.

Yes indeed!

Yet I also feel we must be careful with the notion of an immortal soul. My observation is that if a soul is still attached to the physical, then it can be dissolved through it's attachment - this can happen to a soul passing through a black hole for example. It is literally torn apart by its attachment.

In my view, soul's can evolve until they become immortal, but that is definitely something that is acquired, not inherent.

Chris

hmmm interesting. For the attached soul, does that mean rest and reincarnation once it dissolves? Or does that mean complete and permanent obliteration?

I was also wondering. Is there a way we can make it happen? A way to see more and more of our true selves and less of our distortions? Or is it that there is nothing we can do, and it just happens.

Rest and reincarnation happens yes indeed. But if the soul ceases to continually evolve, then there are universal processes that bring complete dissolution.

Yes indeed, we can catalyse our spiritual evolution - the evolution and completion of the soul's enlightenment. Here's one possibility... openway

Chris

Oh, thats scary. I guess you could say that's a deep seated fear of mine. "complete dissolution".

Ah yes, I guess the 4 sections of the openway in that link are just a little vague without having gone to a workshop!

I find it amusing that people are looking for some kind of immortality. Such a good old objective of searches.

The amusing part is that the ego thinks it will own the soul, and with it become immortal. The irony is that either way it will get dissolved.

How I see it:

As long as it's separated - it's not immortal. Once it gets free and the ascension process is completed, individually or collectively, it will dissolve into the Source.

If it doesn't evolve, it will fall away with all that is dense and outdated (just like the false identities that we shed) and... be dissolved.

Individual soul, in my view, or Atman is a temporary thing, it is an illusion, the result of the illusion of separation. It can't be immortal...

It's immortality lies in its 'dissolution' in Brahman, integrating back into the whole...

So.. nothing to worry about, Cody

Ah i see. So then could we compare the atman as the individual soul, and the brahman as infinite spirit. I guess I always saw brahman as the infinite universe.

Im just curious as to the difference between soul and spirit.

Its funny I swear I knew all this stuff, I somehow forgot!

It's not important how you call it.

It's the feeling of being separate. Like the soul is the flow of certain characteristics and combinations, right? So at that very moment it is somehow defined and 'separate', so it can create an experience and interaction with other souls? Maybe I myself confuse things. Where's Chris?

But it seems that what doesn't change is the presence. And it is undefinable and has no limits, form or anything like that.

Possibly THIS is the taste of the immortal thing. But it's formless and can't be owned, so it's not fun for the ego. It can't have a hold there, that's why it's so painful I guess, the pain of disappointment...

Of course we can all only speak from our own perspective - the key question though is, have we actually attained our full perspective? Are we being really clear about what we're seeing.

I find this statement important and interesting...

"The amusing part is that the ego thinks it will own the soul, and with it become immortal. The irony is that either way it will get dissolved."

Yes indeed, it is only the ego that longs for the immortality of the soul, or tries to own it. The key thing to remember is that we are not the soul. We are pure presence and the soul is an experience of that.

So in a way, it does not matter if a soul gets dissolved, except...... it totally does matter too!

We have to learn to live with the paradox of absolute truth expressed through the relative. So if there was an absolute truth that the soul did not matter, then this would be expressed through all souls and life itself would not matter.

But life does matter. It matters because life itself has happened and is expressed through separation of form or put more accurately - separation of consciousness coming into form. Therefore life cannot not matter! Or else who is it deciding it doesn't? It simply matters because there is existence.

Now I feel to add a complexity to this. The universe is expanding and contracting simultaneously of its own accord. Separation Consciousness keeps expanding through ever increasing multiplicity of form. Unity Consciousness, on the other hand, is embedded within the Separation Consciousness and is always pulling to flow back to the Source.

When an evolved soul reaches the Source, I experience (directly and personally) that a choice arises. Or it is an apparent choice. A soul may feel the pull into dissolution, or compassion brings it back - it is the compassion for those souls that have not yet escaped the illusion and still live in suffering.

So the soul reaches an immortal state based on a perceived need to help bring others into the light. When I watched this closing scene from the matrix, it moved me to tears, because it really gets it...

Chris

I've remembered the line from The Immortals (movie, how funny, ha?). I don't remember exactly...

It's not the living in itself which is important, but living rightly...

Something like that...

So I would say it is rather individual. To me, living the false life is pretty much the same as saying that life doesn't matter. I feel I am wasting it. And even with that I might make a choice to experience something from the matrixy stuff, 'cause I feel like. It could be different to somebody else though.

With one thing I agree. What matters is what is going on right now. And with this attitude all kinds of questions fall away. But it's the harder choice, isn't it?