Hi Lei,

Welcome to Openhand. You ask a very pertinent question. You've obviously traveled deep inside and engaged some fascinating issues about the nature of existence...

"What is the motivation for spiritual awakening?"

In my truth there isn't one! It simply happens as an natural affect of universal flow when we give up internally resisting. It simply happens of it's own accord because we're not denying the moment or trying to make it some other way than it is.

You say...

"even if I work towards enlightenment to benefit humanity, it seems this will add up to nothing for the whole in the ultimate sense as everything will have to start all over somehow"

Why are you thinking you have to work to enlightenment for the benefit of humanity? How can we self realise if you're realising for us?

And why do you think everything has to start over again? In my reality, we keep creating new dimensions of existence ever closer to absolute - perfection. We can never reach perfection in the separated sense, the relative sense, but we can experience ever finer tastes of it - that is if we simply allow ourselves to.

And suffering is necessary - or rather unavoidable. To me, ALL life is suffering at the absolute level. Have you ever contemplated what the sound of a bee gathering nectar would be like in the eleventh dimension? I can tell you, it sounds like world war three!

The point is, in the absolute sense, any experience at all is less than perfection and therefore at some level, a distraction. Even bliss is a distraction. But we can't change it now. Separation has happened and is evolving to ever finer forms of unity. Accept it. Accept what is happening for you. Settle into the absolute, into the centre and just allow experience to happen. Go with whatever arises. Let yourself dissolve in the fullness of it. Don't need it to be this way or that. Give yourself absolutely to what is happening. Then you'll come into the absolute and whatever experience is happening will be okay...

"Less pain without more wisdom defeats your purpose;
does not allow you to experience infinite joy - which is what I am.
Be patient. You are gaining wisdom.
And your joys are now increasingly available without pain.
That too is a very good sign. You are learning to love without pain;
to let go without pain; to create without pain; even cry without pain.
Yes you're even able to have your pain without pain."
Conversations with God 1 Page 158

I trust this helps a little

Chris

Hi Lei,

Welcome to Openhand and thank you for sharing. I completely agree with Chris there. It's a very interesting question to post.

For me spiritual awakening is something that happens naturally. We might be inspired by others to find that which is within ourselves. This is why we might feel drawn to certain work, practices, places etc. They act as a mirror, to show us who we really are. Normally people awaken and then feel a pull to certain things that can inspire the unfolding awakening process to keep unveiling.

When I woke up, it was as if the entire universe disappeared and all that remained was 'One body of Light'. I experienced the divine connection of all sentient beings. There was no 'one without the other' any more. I felt such profound compassion for all sentient beings that it was challenging for me to function for a little while. Everything was different. I felt the pain and suffering in the world of animals, Mother Earth and people. I felt it as my own. After a while I learnt to integrate this experience and found functioning more easier. I followed my heart and found peace within doing what I felt divinely inspired to do. I learned that feeling everything so strongly was actually a powerful gift as it taught me the benefits of not identifiying with the suffering and allowing my authentic beingness to arise instead. The feeling never went away but my relationship to it evolved. If anything, I feel more now. Not everyone has such a powerful experience but we ALL experience what we are meant to in the best interests of our unique unfolding.

If the world needs anything, then it needs you to be 'Yourself'. By allowing your true beingess to radiate outwards you will inspire others to find the same within themselves. What better gift can we offer?

With Love
Trinity

Hi Chris,

Thank you for responding. I do think you've addressed the core of my confusion!

And suffering is necessary - or rather unavoidable. To me, ALL life is suffering at the absolute level. Have you ever contemplated what the sound of a bee gathering nectar would be like in the eleventh dimension? I can tell you, it sounds like world war three!

I have actually considered this perspective, but I've heard various spiritual teachers saying that enlightenment is really the end of suffering, even Eckhart Tolle mentioned that the Buddha pointed to enlightenment simply as 'free of sufferings' as he didn't want to make it into a concept for people. That's why I often saw enlightenment as the end of the journey, and my mind couldn't comprehend anything beyond that ending so it had to imagine a new beginning - everything starting all over again.

I understood that all sufferings are a result of resisting what is, and is a disharmony with the universal flow. But if i understand you correctly, this is also a matter of perspective. Even when we are in complete surrender and have gone beyond the confines of our personal self/ the ego, as long as we're still experiencing form there's bound to be some disharmony or tension in our experience compared to the absolute level of awareness. Is this understanding correct?

I have found though that whenever I surrender to an unacceptable situation and bring love to it, I instantly experience a change of my perception of that situation. In that instant, I seem to have understood the purpose of creation, this is to experience love and expansion. I also come to see with that experience that the reason I have these questions is precisely because I view life through the lens of separation. With my dualistic mind I inevitably think in terms of good and bad in linear terms, and as a result I wanted to know if my actions can have a positive impact at all in an ultimate sense. But from a higher perspective of the whole, there's really no separation, no good and bad, no inside and outside, everything is simply one unbroken experience. The whole simply wants to experience, the experience itself is the purpose and the meaning. How does this view resonate with your truth?

I also assume if there's ascension then there must also be descension (spiraling downwards), which exists by default as a part of the design as you cannot have one without its opposite. But at least now I feel comforted knowing that this is an infinite journey of growth and learning, and that my intention and effort to awaken and learn will not end in vain.

If i was in a very high vibrational state I'd imagine the sound of a bee gathering nectar almost like divinely beautiful music to my ear, but I guess this also only seems so in relative terms.

I have another question for you regarding life path choices, I'd love to hear your opinions. Right now I'm a bit sleepy due to the lack of sleep, I'll post it a bit later when my mind is clear.

Thank you so much, I've found it very intriguing to read your reply!

Lei

Hi Trinity,

I've only just noticed your reply. Thank you very much, I find what you say really inspiring!

I've recently had a very strong inner urge to expand far beyond the confines of my own personality to feel at one with everything and great compassion for all beings, yet there still seem to be so many restrictions holding me back.

I've been a vegan for about 3 years now, I initially went vegan purely out of self-interest, but I've definitely become a better person because of it, now it feels such insanity to me that people would kill animals simply to satisfy their taste buds!

with love,

Lei

Hi Lei,

Great dialogue - thanks for the exchange

Yes as you say, I'm aware that many people speak of the end of suffering as Enlightenment happens. I guess it depends on how you define suffering. For me, in Enlightenment, pain does not get less. Because we can now actually experience the suffering of others, indeed all humanity and the plant and animal kingdoms alike, the pain gets worse. Much worse, it just matters less! So there's no attachment to it. There's realisation that we are pure presence beyond all experience and there's a constant settling into that.

You said something else which offers a big clue to why you're experiencing what you are...

"I have found though that whenever I surrender to an unacceptable situation and bring love to it, I instantly experience a change of my perception of that situation."

Why do you feel to bring love to the situation? To me this is a common misconception spoken of in many spiritual circles, websites and forums. In my observation, it is a mind led concept that is actually leading people astray. Why not just accept the situation as it is?

You rightly say that for there to be Ascension, there has to be Descension. Yes indeed! How right you are! How can there be one without the other? So there is a natural movement or flow of energy - pure consciousness. There is Separation Consciousness which is flowing outwards from the centre - descending - and Unity Consciousness which is flowing into the centre - Ascending. In my take on reality, the whole of the universe was formed from this inevitable arising dynamic. I explained it briefly in a clip from a seminar we gave in Byron Bay, Australia last year... http://www.openhandweb.org/what_is_ascension_gateways_seminar_video_clip

We are the 'source' at the centre. Yet of course, since time and space are in themselves an illusion, the centre is everywhere! We are the Seer that transcends everything else. The Seer - everything/nothing - has subdivided into parts of itself. This was the bigbang. It wasn't intended. Just unavoidable. But as the separation happens, you get awareness - consciousness. Consciousness is merely the awareness of a difference between one thing and another. It's also different from pure presence - which is what we are.

Now to me, the entire problem results in one of false identification. We as the Seer, first identify with Separation Consciousness and experience quite intense suffering - although of course, there can still always be the realisation that it's still an illusion. Then we identify with the Unity Consciousness - the soul. We begin to experience profound unconditional love and then 'want' that for all the other parts of ourselves - other people. Hence compassion arises. However wanting this enlightenment for others is simply ownership and identification with the soul. If we didn't 'want' separation in equal measure, there would be no experience at all!

So we are not the soul. We are pure presence - the Seer. Yet the Seer may ride the soul through you and through me separately as apparently different waves on the same ocean. Your wave, like mine and others, is being invited naturally on this return journey of Ascension. But to effort to do this or to try to help others do it, is simply self defeating. We're not accepting who and what we are - pure presence.

I've found the key is simply to focus on what you are being. On what wants to arise naturally without any intention or effort at all. Just keep inquiring in every moment and align with what is. Then even the intention to undergo this attunement dissolves itself. You're left with what is. You're left with your own unique journey. Suffering - in terms of attachment - ends. Suffering - in terms of pain - does not. But it simply doesn't matter any more any way. Pain becomes just another experience.

If we focus on being, then authentic being arises and we find we naturally shine the light for others. But not for them to follow our light. It becomes more a mirror to encourage them to follow their own light. That's why Lao Tzu said...

"A leader is best when people barely know he exists,when his work is done, his aim fulfilled,
they will say: we did it ourselves."
Lao Tzu

He didn't want to own other people's Enlightenment for himself. Which of course is in any case, self defeating. If there's any part of us doing that, we are not being enlightened!

Chris

Hi Chris,

I have actually considered the many of the things you mentioned. but the way you put things together and your logical bent really helps me in grasping them deeper. It's so helpful to discuss them with someone who's actually had the experience!

Because we can now actually experience the suffering of others, indeed all humanity and the plant and animal kingdoms alike, the pain gets worse. Much worse, it just matters less! So there's no attachment to it. There's realisation that we are pure presence beyond all experience and there's a constant settling into that.

Suffering - in terms of attachment - ends. Suffering - in terms of pain - does not. But it simply doesn't matter any more any way. Pain becomes just another experience.

Yes, suffering in terms of attachments (or the egoic state of consciousness), that's what I was referring to. can the universe still experience itself if there's no sufferings from attachments? I guess the answer is NO. That's where I'm confused, if the whole of the humanity and all other life forms that are suffering as a result of attachment entered a state of none attachment, there would be no more experience. if there's no suffering in terms of attachment, there would be no suffering in terms of pain, the separation would also end. It seems the universe has to perpetuate this attachment or egoic state of consciousness so it can carry on experience itself. But if the universe always has to maintain enough of this attachment type of suffering to sufficiently experience itself, then how can one becoming awakened or enlightened benefit the whole?

do you feel to bring love to the situation? To me this is a common misconception spoken of in many spiritual circles, websites and forums. In my observation, it is a mind led concept that is actually leading people astray. Why not just accept the situation as it is?

I guess people try to accept situations through different methods. sometimes it's not so easy to accept a certain situation and just be with it because the mind activity and emotion is very strong, and I often find it helpful to imagine I love the way it is and it does tend to bring my mind back into balance and also quickly transform my perception and understanding of the situation.

found the key is simply to focus on what you are being. On what wants to arise naturally without any intention or effort at all. Just keep inquiring in every moment and align with what is. Then even the intention to undergo this attunement dissolves itself. You're left with what is. You're left with your own unique journey.

Yes, I also understand this is the way to go about it. But my presence power is not so strong at the moment, if I just focus on what I'm being and let things arise naturally, I'll likely to be very passive and get nothing done all day long. It's a dilemma, although I like to be in that state of mind and feeling peaceful and content all the time, often I find it hard to deal with practical life matters in that space of awareness. I think i'm probably just not present enough!

leader is best when people barely know he exists,when his work is done, his aim fulfilled, they will say: we did it ourselves.

I've had carried a copy of the Tao Te Ching for many years (stephen mitchell version), but this is the first time I truly understand this passage! Thank you!

Lei

Hi Lei, great dialogue - very interesting stuff. You ask...

"can the universe still experience itself if there's no sufferings from attachments? I guess the answer is NO. That's where I'm confused"

The answer is actually Yes!!! At least in my reality. Attachment is what causes the experience of suffering, but as long as the pain is not resisted and instead embraced, there can be pain without suffering and therefore the universe can still exist.

The outflow of separation consciousness and the inflow of unity consciousness reaches a state of equilibrium in a perfected universe. Your own beingness is the ultimate possibility of this. Your bodymind is formed of separation consciousness, your soul of unity consciousness. The perfected human state mirrors the perfected universal state balanced in harmony. There is not resisting pain, there is no desiring joy AND AT THE SAME TIME, there is no denying whatever experience arises. We're fervently, wholey and completely immersed in the pleasure and pain of it with no resistence. Equilibrium is attained. Complete harmony.

You say...

"It's a dilemma, although I like to be in that state of mind and feeling peaceful and content all the time, often I find it hard to deal with practical life matters in that space of awareness."

Can you read the dilemma and it's solution in your own words? I always find that when a being asks a question from the soul, the soul answers within the same words. What's happening is a part of you is owning that state of awareness. Or put more accurately, awareness is owning pure presence. Awareness thinks it can't be presence within activity. So there's a choosing of physical peace.

However, if you keep aligning with what is happening - dropping completely into what is happening - then you'll be taken on a journey into your tightness. It sounds like this is exactly what is happening. Then you'll find your beingness is not passive at all, but very very active.

Take anger for example. If we allow it to exist - to give energy to it and not resist - then we'll express anger fully until the anger falls away and what you might be left with is the passion of the warrior energy (what we refer to here as the Ray 1. See Seven Rays of Divine Impulse. As Ghandi said...

"It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of nonviolence to cover impotence. Violence is any day preferable to impotence. There is hope for a violent man to become non-violent. There is no such hope for the impotent."

Take also frustration. Our approach might be to try and dissolve it. Many well known spiritual teachers are currently advocating this. We are not. Instead try feeling it fully. Try being with it and fully expressing it. The we'll find at the core of this distortion is a great truth - that of divine creativity - (the Ray 5) which is somehow being thwarted by the immediate environment we may find ourselves in. There is no vehicle for this creativity. Except if we work with it and peel away the distortion by confronting it internally, then the the divine creativity will come through and manifest another vehicle through which to express. It might not be what the personality wanted it it to be, but what we find, might be even greater than our imagination...

"Be sure of one thing... the "is" has imagined it a great deal better than you or I"
Richard Bach

So for example, you may be involved in a very important project which is receiving loads of resistance - it doesn't seem to want to happen as you imagined it. So this might generate frustration. Feel the frustration, give space to it, become awesomely okay that it is there (by not resisting it), then look for some other way to express the feelings at the core of it - perhaps paint a picture, write something or play an instrument. Whatever it is, look for a vehicle that allows you to express the energy at the core of the feeling.

So here at Openhand, we encourage people to find and align with there absolute inner truth and to express that whatever it is. It takes quite a bit of practice at first. Then we offer techniques for stripping away the distortions and allowing authentic beingness to come through. What follows then is a dropping into pure presence which persists even amidst the day to day goings on of our lives, be they pleasurable or painful, peaceful or passionately active.

I've covered the approach in detail in my book... Five Gateways.

Best wishes

Chris

Hi Chris,

Thank you so much! I'm so glad I raised these questions with you, you've really addressed the core of my confusion!

I'm sure I'll be asking you more questions!

Lei

Hi Chris,

I have another question for you!

Some people have expressed the view that animals don't suffer, and the reason being that they haven't developed a differentiated egoic consciousness like we humans have, so they are pretty much always live in the NOW and don't really form attachments to things. But I'm very sure they experience tremendous physical pain, and at least to me, many more advanced mammals also seem to have developed a certain degree of attachment (or egoic consciousness), so I tend to think that they do suffer in terms of attachments but probably not nearly as much as most of us believe.

In a previous reply to my questions Trinity wrote:

I experienced the divine connection of all sentient beings. There was no 'one without the other' any more. I felt such profound compassion for all sentient beings that it was challenging for me to function for a little while. Everything was different. I felt the pain and suffering in the world of animals, Mother Earth and people.

If what you said were true that the universe can still experience itself without the sufferings in terms of attachment, then isn't the whole point is to fully experience and embrace life fully regardless whether it's pain or joy? and why would we even bother to try to alleviate the pains of the animal kingdom as they aren't that attached to them anyway?

I've also heard some people expressing the view that the only reason the farm animals are here is to serve humans to awaken. I know this might be only a relative truth, but I do resonate with it a lot and it makes sense to me as I see the natural world as a mirror for our human consciousness. I simply cannot conceive the universal consciousness would simply send its children down to be eaten and slaughtered without any meaning and purpose!

I wonder what your view is on this!

Thanks

Lei

“And the wolf shall dwell with the lamb and the leopard shall lie down with the kid, and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together and a little child shall lead them." - Isaiah 11:6

Hi Lei,

Lei wrote: "...then isn't the whole point is to fully experience and embrace life fully regardless whether it's pain or joy? and why would we even bother to try to alleviate the pains of the animal kingdom as they aren't that attached to them anyway?"

It might help to share here that my motivations are actually not to try to ease the pain and suffering of the world. When I first woke up, perhaps it felt that way. Then, I felt such an upwelling in my soul that I wanted to save the world! But as the dust settled I found something else - an impulse to align with a way of being that was authentic for me. So, I am not trying to be compassionate because I 'think' it is good. It is not a mind led intention.

It doesn't feel up to me to judge whether another sentient being (human, animal or plant) feels suffering in the way that I understand suffering or whether they are attached or not. And hence, my actions are not based on that judgement. All I know is when I connect with the core of ALL sentient beings (and by this I could quite equally mean 'a tree') I feel that all life is sacred. I am given to make a constant conscious choice as to how I act in each moment.

With Love
Trinity

Hi Lei,

Thanks once more for some great contemplations.

Do animals suffer? You bet they do! And at all levels. I agree with you - some advanced mammals have evolved what you call an 'egoic consciousness'. Or to me, soul consciousness. Take for example those animals closest to man such as dogs and cats. Now we have both a cat and a rabbit living with us. The cat is most definitely awake in terms of being an individual soul. It is capable of intuitive experience, it has a definite character and it offers discernable compassion - like when our rabbit was close to dieing for example.

But our rabbit, no matter how much love we show to it, seems to always come from basic instinctual actions (and that doesn't stop us loving it any the less!). But even the rabbit (to me) has soul. But unlike the cat, it is a group soul. In other words (in my truth) there is a highly evolved 'Deva' for each species and where each creature is but a cell within that consciousness.

Consider for example the termite. It is no larger that the finger nail, has a brain smaller than a pin head, yet they coordinate together to build the most fantastic nests for breeding off-spring. They build vast and complex chambers all perfectly designed to maintain exact temperatures for incubation. So well designed are these chambers that you'd need many scientists with the most advanced computers to come up with anything comparable. How do they do that?

To me, it is only possible if they are tuned into, indeed a part of, a highly advanced consciousness where the knowing of the whole is encoded in each and every cell. Just like the cells of our bodies - our genetics are encoded in all but each cell is not self consciousness.

Can the Deva that guides the consciousness of each species suffer pain? Yes indeed! But once again, the Deva is highly advanced and doesn't suffer in the sense of attachment. Does that mean it's okay to disrespect and harm other creatures? or does it mean we should show compassion?

I agree entirely with Trinity in her post above and something you said in yours. Creatures, like all living things, are mirrors to our own true nature. When you look in the mirror, how do you feel to be? Do you feel to be compassionate? or do you feel anything else? Compassion must arise as an authentic upwelling from the soul. It cannot be programmed or intended with the mind.

We have an eleven year old son who plays football in our garden. Sometimes the ball damages bushes and plants. Just because I tell him to be compassionate of the plants does that make him do it? No it doesn't! And would I even want him to come from some mind led intent if he couldn't feel it in his heart? No I wouldn't! I'd rather not risk building resistance to that. It's like asking a child to say "thankyou" for his food. What's the point if it's only a program and doesn't come from the heart? I'd rather he acted as he felt to be, perhaps notice how I'm being and then one day, just as I did, compassion arises because he's surrendered any need for an outcome in this world - including compassion!

Finally, Trin wrote an excellent article on Being Authentic. Anyone reading this thread may also like to read the article... Are you being absolutely authentic?

With love and blessings

Chris

Hi Trinity and Chris,

Thank you for the responses!

Trinity, thanks for the clarification, it's so helpful to know your experiences.

I agree entirely with Trinity in her post above and something you said in yours. Creatures, like all living things, are mirrors to our own true nature. When you look in the mirror, how do you feel to be? Do you feel to be compassionate? or do you feel anything else? Compassion must arise as an authentic upwelling from the soul. It cannot be programmed or intended with the mind.

So true!

will be reading Trinity's article on authenticity!

Lei