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Passing by with the struggle :)

Hello,

Here's the brief history because I feel like to tell about it...

So.. I'm 14 - suffering from major depression, anxiety, not really interested to stay alive.. not believing in anything, laughing at people and their values, not wanting to take my place in a flock, waiting to die
(sounds dramatic :D)

I'm 18 - meeting someone who tells me this fantastic story that there are happy people - they have fun all day long - "I'm here to have fun, we live only once, so enjoy!!!" - their life's credo

It makes me think that what life (or the world) look like to you depend on you only, on your "processor"... So I'm seeing not so good, and need to change..

18-25 - Psychiatry, psychotherapy, piles of medications to ruin the rest of my health - but.. My eyes are open and I'm learning, and even getting B.Sc on chemistry!

25- Kabbalah studies for 2 years - it definitely helped and taught me things.. starting practicing yoga for health, ignoring all the spiritual aspects (since the teacher says it won't work, because the nowadays ego you can't suppress), got married to my boyfriend, who studied chemistry at the same university with me and revealed Kabbalah to me

27 - got out with husband,loads of info, ideas, some kind of new me, but also anger and confusion - I don't know what to do next - and feeling something while yoga exercises (even though I didn't try anything but relax)

last few months - internet..internet..New Age staff, meditations...ran into many interesting ideas, thoughts, advises - so many people are trying to help, to make a change, to do good - it's very inspiring..

2 days ago - ran into your video, and felt just like I felt many times when I studied Kabbalah - feeling full, expanded, happy and joyful, alive..

yesterday - I entered your site...

and today - I'm here writing this I don't really know why...

So..here's my life, and "life is a harsh teacher", but I must say it was worth it

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

And what did I learn? the hard way..

1. It does depend on you how you perceive the reality, want to change it - change yourself (for you it's trivial, many wrote about it, but for me it was a hard work to discover)...

2. All you need is to want to change, to want to find the "truth" (the purpose, the meaning, God,...)

3. And then to listen carefully and to look closely - instead of talk and show (that's not easy at all, especially the talk, especially not for the woman :D)

4. Answers, guides, lessons are everywhere in every moment (but personally, I can't be so focused all the time)

5. I found that it's a mistake to be stuck somewhere to evolve "spiritually" - with most of people I know did so it turned to fanaticism, it creates limitations if you don't know how to protect yourself

6. Doubt is necessary, but so is to be sure - paradox

7. No coercion - it means - don't "touch" others, even not in your thoughts, don't try or want to change others. Focus on yourself only. (that's what I've learned anyway)

8. But it's great to tell what you know in a book or site or blog like you do, so if someone is looking for, he will find - so here comes the "thank you"

9. It's very important to take a good care of the body - some "spiritual teachers" ignore that completely

10.Nature (this is how I call God, Creator, Universe.. it doesn't mean trees and grass, but everything, even things I might never discover).. so..Nature is kind, loving and taking care of, but also is very cruel (only in perception) if you don't cooperate, if you don't obey it's laws.. (personally and generally)

11. So you are making a move, it comes back to you in a surprising way, you don't understand why you deserve this.
And then you notice that it is like a distorting mirror - you know, that the reflection depends on your motion, but you don't know what it's going to be. And that's because you don't know the laws, and they are needed to be learned.

Most of the time what you project outside this is what you get back.

12. But the way is only by trying to tune yourself and to see if you were a "good boy"... And this is a personal research of the Nature laws

13.Suffering is the mark of resistance. You suffer only if you resist Nature. But if you align yourself with Nature's laws, you feel it's endless warmth, love, it's perfection, etc. and all this you feel within yourself

15. The only guides I see right now is from nature, science, which is trying to understand and explore the nature if you don't focus on what's under your microscope, but trying to see the whole picture, like Einstein did - and it's harmony, wholeness, connection, that everything is dependent on everything.. and through all that you can feel something very big, something powerful, beyond your understanding.

You can see all that genius,you understand you can't compete that, it's better to surrender..and give yourself to it..

16.But how? How to "surrender" to the Nature, to open, to flaw, to listen etc. And that's what you're talking about, I understand..

17. And that's exactly my problem - that's why struggling.. I'm still struggling, still resisting, and I admit, I'm afraid, to loose control, to climb the wrong mountain, to not be able to survive, and many more scary things...boo

So here I'm finishing this thing I wrote, hope it was interesting to somebody..

And even if not reading the whole staff - just by comparing the two parts - history and learned lessons, who would dare to say life had nothing to offer me when I was 14 and wanted to die? Wink

Also I have some questions.. so I'll ask them later.. I believe you have special place for questions Smile , so I'll ask them there

I wish everybody a fascinating journey, and total coalescence with Nature (no matter how you call it, it means I wish the biggest happiness in the world),
Someone

Trinity's picture

Greetings Someone!
Welcome to the site... and thank you for sharing.

You make many insightful and interesting points. Number 13 jumps out for me right now:

    13.Suffering is the mark of resistance. You suffer only if you resist Nature. But if you align yourself with Nature's laws, you feel it's endless warmth, love, it's perfection, etc. and all this you feel within yourself

Absolutely! We have a choice in every moment as to whether we go with the flow. I see it as the natural flow of the universe. Nothing can stop it flowing, yet we can choose to align with it (feeling ever greater levels of peace and love within) or go against it (feeling the pain and struggle of fighting against that which is destined). And how amazing when we fully embody the fact the entire universe is within us - not realising this is another factor that makes the struggle so needlessly intense.

Just passing through and felt moved to say HI :angel:

Warmly
Trinity

someone's picture

I think I made a mistake...
I meant to say "passing through" according to dictionary... and you helped me to fix it Smile

tricky language, tricky memory, tricky sub-consciousness...

Now.. flowing...

I believe it's possible to do that constantly - to flow.. and "people" say so..and I believe this is what to be done

but I feel like this on-off thing..

that's why I don't understand the poll about "where are you?" - I feel like jumping between the 3 first and sometimes even jumping out of it completely.. Is that possible?

Chris Bourne's picture

Hey Someone, you're welcome here Smile

Just a few quick responses...

1. "for you it's trivial, many wrote about it, but for me it was a hard work to discover"
Its not trivial for anyone! Self realisation is hard work - full stop.
In my perspective, anyone who says its easy is not getting anywhere!

2. "but personally, I can't be so focused all the time"
For everyone its a case of continually dissolving into pure presence. When we do this, it's like taking the lid off Pandora's Box - the teachings come thick and fast. It may feel overwhelming but pure presence is the only truth - its a waste of time being anywhere else. Take the courage to dive into it and keep diving.

3. "I found that it's a mistake to be stuck somewhere to evolve "spiritually" - with most of people I know did so it turned to fanaticism, it creates limitations if you don't know how to protect yourself"
You're right, evolution can become fanatical unless....we keep going into pure presence. Its only the ego that wants to evolve. When the ego gets out of the way, evolution happens of its own accord.

4. "Doubt is necessary, but so is to be sure - paradox"
I would say, be sure of what you know AND know that it could all change in an instant! In doubt there is truth because there is a question "what is really real?" It's fine to hold this question but not the doubt that arises from it.

5. "No coercion - it means - don't "touch" others, even not in your thoughts, don't try or want to change others. Focus on yourself only. (that's what I've learned anyway)"
Absolutely!!! In any case, everything outside of ourselves is merely a mirror. To truly change the mirror is to change what I am being within. I found this to be absolutely true even of OTHER PEOPLE'S distortions.

6. "Suffering is the mark of resistance. You suffer only if you resist Nature. But if you align yourself with Nature's laws, you feel it's endless warmth, love, it's perfection, etc. and all this you feel within yourself"
Perfect! Wonderful! Enlightened!

7. "And that's exactly my problem - that's why struggling.. I'm still struggling, still resisting, and I admit, I'm afraid, to loose control, to climb the wrong mountain, to not be able to survive, and many more scary things...boo"
You've already made the first step - at least you know the issue which is more than most! So you've come a long long way. Do you realise that? You've already discovered so much. Well done!!! Now just keep on going. Don't give up, just never stop surrendering.

Everything you're afraid of is of the mental plain. Once you know this, you have a choice: keep struggling in the mental plain or instead connect deep within your feelings.

What you feel is likely to be far more authentic than what you think. So keep feeling - all the time keep feeling. Find out what brings you joy in life, what makes you feel open and expanded, light, at-one and keep doing these things. Whilst you're doing them, don't loose yourself in them, dissolve into them yes, but always be watching yourself in them - for your feelings will provide the path to your soul, and your soul will provide the path to who you are - the everything/nothing, the pure presence, the infinite potential before all else arises - what we call "The Seer".

So go deep into your feelings and over time, you'll begin to break down attachment and identification with the mental plain. Then instead you'll begin to touch more often the abode of the soul. Let the soul strengthen by bringing attention to it continually - to that which brings you joy.

Then, bit by bit, you'll realign with the soul, identification with the mind will cease and the distortion unravel. The mind will stop victimising your being. Instead the dog will wag the tail not the other way around!

Much love

Chris

someone's picture

Thank you very much,

there a resonanse... so I'll definitely work on that

someone's picture

1.Yoga was helping me to calm down and concentrate,

but what you said about "moving naturaly" in your practice I took a little further and trying to "move naturally" no matter what I do.. It helps..

Not easy, but helps!

2.And I must add that I've tried your meditation - it's scary.. I felt tensed before, during the classic breathing concentration

but I discover how tensed, and it "just won't let go"! - Even if I'm succeeding to, when I keep moving to the next step, the previous region is shrinking again Sad

But! I do achieve some sense of lightness and this is something that stays with me during the day..

3.I discovered some part of myself, calm, sort of wise, and it feels like it's watching..It was there, I didn't notice - it really puts everything in other perspective - I still feel things, but it's like it's not really me.. it lets me to calm the body and help it to deal with these.. emotional attachments..habits..Maybe this is the observer? Or should I ask for a mental help? hh

4. And also after reading the ascension articles, I do feel different, more open..

5. I've sent your "gateways video" to my friends and I get very warm responses, people like it and even feel excited, inspired like I was when I saw it..

So thank you very much for your very inspiring site Smile It's very helpful
I'll keep working (and enjoying)...

Trinity's picture

Hi Someone,

Your experience with meditation is very interesting. I have so many times heard of the challenges that meditation brings. Even if you feel tense and tight, then it is a wonderful opportunity to learn more about yourself and see where you are getting stuck. If I have experienced tightness in meditation I bring my awareness to that tension. I don't try to make it 'go away'. Instead I accept that I feel tight. In doing so I find that, somehow it has 'served it's purpose' and usually disappears all by itself. I then feel waves of peace/bliss/expansion (or whatever I am 'meant' to feel or realise in that moment).

The key is to not try to get it rid of it or to fight it for this only seems to give even MORE energy to it, making it 'worse'.

It sounds though you are doing something very right though - if you are experiencing 'some sense of lightness and this is something that stays with me during the day..' then something is working for you :angel:

There were times in the past when I found meditation actually quite unsettling (or even as you say 'scary'). It would take me into very deep undiscovered places within, and at times I didn't feel quite read for that. I did learn to surrender and trust the divine process and as a result I overcame the fears and found deeper and deeper truths as a result.

Trinity
x

someone's picture

If I got it right, you say that it's better not to resist even to that.. No resistance or fighting?
To accept evrything that comes and to give myself away completely?

Trinity's picture

Yes Wink resistance only creates more of the same (i.e. tightness).

But not necessarily to give yourself away completely... rather to let go of that which no longer serves your journey of evolution (but also without 'trying', for trying also creates tension :shocked:). It is the divine paradox - the cosmic puzzle.

someone's picture

I've just tried now - you're right, trying does create tension..

Don't try - just do! (how is the logo?) or.. Don't try, just be!

Don't try, just flow.

I feel like adding "Nike." or "Adidas." Biggrin

Thanks

Chris Bourne's picture

Yes indeed - just be - be whatever wants to happen.
Be absolutely honest, profoundly authentic.
Don't deny or hide. Go right to the heart of the matter.
Resistance simply creates identity resisting...ditto denial.

If you feel angry, let anger speak, until the passion reveals itself and the distortion that is the anger falls away. If you feel tired, go deep into tiredness. Don't try to sweep it under the carpet. Accept it, embrace it.

I remember when I was waking up going through an amazing period of incredible health, well-being and energy. I was getting lighter every day. I felt "this is it, I've found what I'm looking for".

Suddenly, unexpectedly I got sick which made me very tight indeed - my supposed enlightenment vapourised like a bubble. That made me disappointed, disheartened and yes, even angry.

I was bed-ridden for several days (extremely unusual for me), until suddenly it all clicked. I'd built an identity around happiness, health and well-being.

As soon as I realised this, there was only one place to go - deep into the sickness. Deep into surrender. Dissolving fully and becoming as one with the pain. Not trying to cure it but letting it wash through me, around me, over me, until I became so awesomely okay with it, I no longer recognised it as pain.

Then you know what? The identity I'd built around good health and not liking pain simply vanished into thin air! Suddenly, lying in bed, I found myself in bliss!!!

Healing is all about self-realisation - knowing ourselves as beyond identity.

Chris Smile

Trinity's picture

:cool: Wonderful! I feel really happy for you too!

Now the challenge is to keep remembering that :think: again and again and then through all things.

Marion's picture

I just popped onto The Openhand website to get some inspiration and happened to read your post above Chris. I had to giggle as there was the answer to the question I had been pondering over the last few days.
I have just recovered after quite a nasty bug but while I was ill a lot of questions and situations arose to what was going on for me at this moment.
So the answer was not to do with the illness but to do with where I am with life at the moment.
Anyway have just tried to get into words what I needed to say and can't so will just say the old sinario of getting attached to non attachment had arisen. ( puppet j has a great story on this)
But I can really grasp what you said about having formed an identity and I think that now I just have to let go of it all and try and get back in the flow....
Look forward to seeing you soon
Love Marion

someone's picture

1. I keep trying not to try Biggrin I found that this is very hard.My mind keeps trying to take control over the situation. Let's say I'm in relaxation process and I feel tensed, immediately my mind says: "I got it, it's wrong, and then I feel resistance and even mote tension, just like you said it would. I hope that patience and observing it will help with time.

2. It's unbelievable - the meditation effects, I'm discovering something every time.. For example there's meditation when you bring white shiny ball of light into the chakras - after I concentrated for a longer period on my chest - I finally could take a full breath in (usually it's stuck in lower rib cage). After a while it's stuck again, but at least I know what it is to fully breathe

3. I have this effect - the better my relaxation is, the worse "mind noise", pressure,fears, anxiety, all kinds of emotional turbulence get...Is that normal? or at least could it happen or am I doing something wrong?

4. I'm trying to be in the moment, but I'm loosing it so fast, that I'm not even always aware of it.

In general, I must say that I do feel something is going on, some change, as if something is pushing me and I think it's not me, because I feel that I'm only interrupting it (not on purpose)

I made small cards with inspiring sentences,instructions,reminders, which I take with me to every place I go, so if I have free moments and I want to get tuned or to remind myself things, I read them. It's very helpful Smile
there's a lot from your site in those cards Wink

Thank you for a huge support and ideas and for a place to talk about these things,
Me

Trinity's picture

Hey there Someone...

It sounds as if you are coming on leaps and bounds! Well done. I enjoyed your update and am warmed to know that things are really shifting for you. It does, as you say take patience - LOTS of it. Perhaps you'll even apply for sainthood :lol: The energy that you are applying to your journey of unfolding is clearly very strong.

    You wrote: 3. I have this effect - the better my relaxation is, the worse "mind noise", pressure,fears, anxiety, all kinds of emotional turbulence get...Is that normal? or at least could it happen or am I doing something wrong?

This is very interesting. The experience is unique for us all. When we initially begin to expand, we create space for higher consciousness to flood into our energy field. This is very positive as it will then help flush out the things that no longer serve us. So it is very common that when we first get into meditation that we would notice such 'noise'. The noise may be the increasing awareness of the chatter in order that you can find something beyond it.

It will pass eventually as long as you keep watching. The 'stuff' will clear out of its own accord as long as you keep being fully present with it. Sounds like you are doing a fabulous job already.

And regarding your comment about "trying to be in the moment, but I'm loosing it so fast, that I'm not even always aware of it."

It does take time to master this one. What you describe is totally normal. Every time you notice you've lost it simply bring your presence back to the your centre again.

I love the card idea too. How helpful to remind yourself of inspiring thought throughout the day.

With Love
Trinity
x

someone's picture

I've experienced it many times - when I have some question or situations or problems I can't solve and I am so frustrated not to be able to find the answer..I almost run to somebody to ask what to do!!! :0

But! If I wait long enough, somehow the answer will appear - I see it in a movie or hear something about it in a conversation in the bus.. or suddenly I just know the answer

So I have some unresolved unpleasant situation for a very long period of time - ~4-5 years. And I just can't decide what to do - and I wanted to ask you (not in details of course).. And then I stoped and have remembered this trick with questions-spontaneous answers...

And guess what, it came up to me immediately - "not to force things","not to resist","if you can't decide, then don't until you have to"

Sometimes the answers are under the nose and it takes time and effort not to interrupt them to get to me - because even if the answer is there, sometimes there is subconscious block because I don't want to hear that answer, or I have some limitations to even accept some new concept, and not talking about fears.

Deduction: nothing new - let answers and solutions spontaneously emerge and be ready to accept anything.

Thank you very very much Smile
Yulia

Chris Bourne's picture

Dear Yulia,

How right you are!
Have you come across this post on the website?....

http://www.openhandweb.org/making_difficult_decisions_easier_0

Much love

Chris

someone's picture

There's a rule in jewish spiritual "code" which is called brit lashon - which is parallel to "not talking vow".

It doesn't mean not to talk at all, but not to talk about your spiritual experiences with anybody, but teacher or partner.

It's turning spiritual experience back to ego level and klipot (shells), which hide the light from getting to lower levels, feed from it.

It means, that if you don't save what you've gained on higher spiritual level, it will fall down to feed your lower level, and talking is one of things that might cause to it.

Shakti Mhi wrote: True practice is like making love to your higher self. In the same way as you do not describe to others the intimacy you share with your beloved (at least I hope not!), it is not appropriate to discuss your practice with others either. In doing so, you disperse the energy of your practice. In other words, you weaken it. You feed your ego and cling to your lower self, the illusion of who you think you are.

So I checked this one during my kabbalistic practice and thought about it again and came to the conclusion that it's all about intention, which can be:
- narcissism
- pride
- just something to talk about
- self-advertisement
- trying to pull attention
- aknowledgment

or
- talking about it so others can be aware of such processes, thoughts, experiences and get inspiration or ideas
- trying to get support (which of course mugth be needed in the beginning, until you get strong enough to proceed yourself)
- trying to see what others think about it to learn from their responses and ideas

So I believe that if you checked your intention well and you're sure you won't disperse your experience in your ego, and while writing you keep that intention very carefully, and even maybe trying to chanel what you're writing from your higher levels of your being, then a vow is unnecessary. I mean that if you can control and navigate where your talking is coming from and where it goes, then you can not to worry that you'll lower it.

What do you say about it?

someone's picture

I think that the comment about talking got lost in plenty of comments Smile

I think that this subject is pretty important and I would like to know what other people discovered about it on their path.

Thank you,
Yulia

Chris Bourne's picture

Hi Yulia,

I think the point is not if we should share our spiritual experiences, but who with?

I've found that if I share my experiences with people who are just not in the place to receive them, there is a tendency to devalue and de-energise them. This can even lead to our questioning the very nature of the experience in the first place. As Jesus said in the Bible...

"Cast not your pearls before swine, lest they trample on them"

However, I've also found both for myself, and with many other people, how important it can be to share our experiences with people who are likely to "get it". It is a powerful way to ground the experience, unfold the meaning of it, and integrate it into our being.

That's why mutual sharing is such a big part of our workshops and retreats. It's also the main reason of providing this forum.

So please do keep on sharing!

Chris Smile

Trinity's picture

I find this a very interesting subject Yulia, so thank you for bringing it up.

As long as I can remember I have always been guided by my heart and soul. It was atleast two years before I uttered a word about my awakening to anyone. It was a life changing, earth shattering event of profound realisation, yet I did not feel moved to share it with anyone. Perhaps it was that the 'right' people weren't in my life at the time. It was only when a friend enquired after seeing something through my eyes that I uttered my first words about it. He held a key. I responded from the the depths of my soul and found words to begin the articulation of my experience.

It has been this way ever since. I only share when I feel divinely given to. This is most often just with an individual. At other times it might be with a group or online with the 'whole world'. I cannot bring myself to share unless I feel that I am meant to. This is not a mind led act. I find that unless I am supposed to share, there are no words within me to explain anything. Yet, when I am meant to, the words usually flow like a vibrant mountain river.

Sharing of our experiences can be of great support to others in such a fragmented world, whereby people may feel alone, confused or afraid. It can also offer a sign post to help others find the way. Sharing can also help us make sense of what we are experiencing.

We receive so many mails telling us that the sharings on the site here are invaluable. So let's look within our hearts and share as we are given to.

With Love
Trinity

"What do you say about it?"

Hi Yulia

When I hear a higher self describing a spiritual experience, it often feels new and fresh, like they are experiencing it for the first time.

When an ego tries to own the message, I always sense "knowledge" attached to the expression in a way that makes it feel old.

The oldness feels more like a previous experience than a spiritual experience (i.e. spoken from within the now)

Kristian

someone's picture

Are you talking about how to make sure "you won't disperse your experience in your ego"? By recognizing if it's emotional-fresh or is coming from knowledge?

You say that you recognize when ego is taking over the sharing when it sounds "old"?

How can you be sure it's not just emotional?

For example, when I'm tuning to my higher "talking", very often I feel very calm and sharp, and pretty "observing" the talking and the past experience both. So it's not always I share when I'm emotional and excited or not always a higher self is anything like that.

And also I beleive that anyway the talking is going through filters of our temperament, manners, type, mood, language limiting frames..I believe, that's why there's a line "any word spoken is a lie". No matter how hard you try to transfer your authentic experience or thought, it's immediately distorted by the limited possibilities of expressions.

So I wouldn't count on that.

Example: I have a close friend. We talked about something and she told me in a very not-spiritual-gentle-flowing -higher manner, but in a very straightforward, simple, not fresh at all way something, that "opened my eyes". I felt fresh after what she said, but she didn't sound fresh when she said that, it was her old lesson, old experience.. a new one for me Smile

Notes:

1. I would like to point that I think that knowledge is not bad, when you use it, and not vice versa

2. Our experiences are stored spiritualy, physically and mentally, so it might come from different places, while not necessarily bringing the experience to ego. The past experiences leave imprints, traces projected from "high" to "low" - again, it doesn't mean that ego owns them

3. Everything is going through ego. The question is what that ego is serving in every moment.

Also I think that as many people on earth, as many there will be the ways to keep away from sharing-harm Biggrin

4. It was a good reminder:
"Cast not your pearls before swine, lest they trample on them"

Also the elements of checking the flow, if I feel like talking at all, or something is stopping me. If the words are flowing, then I will check the rest..

Thanks for replies, this issue somehow jumped out on me of the net and since I started sharing here :), I wanted to talk about it..

Thanks again,
Yulia

Trinity's picture

Hi Yulia,

Someone wrote:

    "I have a close friend. We talked about something and she told me in a very not-spiritual-gentle-flowing -higher manner, but in a very straightforward, simple, not fresh at all way something, that "opened my eyes". I felt fresh after what she said, but she didn't sound fresh when she said that, it was her old lesson, old experience.. a new one for me..."

To me this is a great example of higher consciousness using whatever means are available to deliver you whatever it is you needed to hear in that moment. It doesn't really matter if another person is awake or not. There is reason for everything. I often hear 'unawakened' people saying various things. Within those words may be a message especially for me. It may be something other than what they think they are talking about. I won't get lost in their words. Instead I'll feel what it is I am meant to get from the conversation. Perhaps they get something from me, with out realising. We can not know the reason or outcome of everything. We can only trust that if we follow our soul we'll say or do what we are meant to.

I agree with you. There is nothing wrong with knowledge in itself. It's only really indoctrination of knowledge that becomes unserving to ourselves.

I've just made a new curtain with fabric and my sewing machine. My mother passed on the skills to me when I was a child. She also taught me how to bake things. I am thankful for this knowledge. Our dear friend David helped build our meditation studio. I am very thankful that he has knowledge in carpentry (for I certainly don't :-)).

Trinity
x

Yulia wrote:

"Are you talking about how to make sure "you won't disperse your experience in your ego"? By recognizing if it's emotional-fresh or is coming from knowledge?"

Hi Yulia,

yes and no.

I don't leave the place where i am speaking from, so it is not a question of figuring out where the words are coming from. It is more of where do the words point to inside. In reality and experience ... I am never separate from you or anyone else.

My words are not descriptions, they are pointers.
My expression is not to help others try to understand me in the hope that they may experience me.
I am just experiencing others and writing .....and I let others do the same if they wish.

Here is a suggestion.
experience me now before understanding or even thinking about what I am saying here.

See my words more as a way of locating me inside yourself.
Hear me without trying to see me.

When you hear me, my words will start to be experienced more like your words.
The feeling of oneness is very strong in the higher realms.
When the feeling of oneness grows stronger you will start to enter the same room I am in.
Experience me in sillence for a little while and you will find yourself (or not) sharing within a similar context

Sharing is a blissful experience when done right.

It is important though not try to see me as you. That is more of an intellectual oneness. You are a unique All within the oneness.

Kristian

someone's picture

I found some time to share my recent experiences:

1. First of all I observe fast transitions between different states of mind and mood. I'm letting them be without struggle and judgement as much as I can and in a very wierd way it turns out to be a "controling manipulation", like the other side of control, a passive one.

And it allowed me actually to see the situations or the events through new glasses, in an unfamiliar light. I can't give a precise definition, but right now I just can say it feels very curious, happy and childish. Like exploring the world around and you barely know what's going on around and everything is interesting..

2. I find out this balance thing, which is very labile. And also very individual!! It shows me for another time that I can never know what's right for someone else at some specific point in someone's life.

It somehow makes me much more friendly and understanding, but at the same time wierd for others. I can see that I'm (what I do or say, or the way I react) hard to understand to other people, even my relatives, and it's very surprising for me that they are trying to understand, which means it doesn't scare them , but somehow makes them curious and they are asking different questions. Also somehow I become "popular" and "lucky" - and I still don't know what to do with that, this is completely new and even scary for me, but also interesting to explore.

3. About the balance itself: I find that usually there are two opposite poles, and I find myself jumping from one pole to another, and gradually find the balance between them, for a while I can keep this balance until it's broken and needed to be found again. And it seems that this "phenomenon" has to do with everything - even what to eat or how to dress and how to react, etc... There are some levels of it I still don't understand, but I wait for them to reveal themselves.

4. I feel pretty confused or maybe not-understanding,in a positive way, and everything is a mystery for me at the moment. It's like reading an exciting book, when you're hungry to read every next word.

5. But I must say that I'm also a little scared. I'm not used to see life in such positive light, it's like I'm expecting for something bad to happen. If everything is about laws of conservation in nature, and also there some sort of periodicity is obtained - like "after winter must come spring" - then if everything is so great now, and I won't start to tell all the details of all the great things happening to me now, then after that must come "winter".

And at this point I'm trying to develop trust in nature, that no evil can come from it, but only from myself.

And also I tell myself that if I feel good, it doesn't mean it's necessarily "good", many times in life something really "bad" happens, but after a while you see that it was "good" for something. And so I go back to this "good and bad" in feeling versus "good and bad" for some specific goal.

And I say - if very "bad" things start to happen, they are not really "bad", but it will depend on me how to see them and how to work with them. Nature couldn't possibly give me some task I couldn't bare, and it's necessarily crucial either for me individually or for the entire system.

That's all for now, sorry if it was a little messy, I'm in rush.

Even if I'm not writing, I'm reading, I just have very little time right now. Also "Nature's will" I beleive.

Love,
Yulia

Trinity's picture

It's wonderful to see you here again Yulia Smile I know you've been very busy lately.

It sounds as if you are having some profound unfoldings... there is indeed a lesson to help us unfold even deeper in everything we are given in life.

With Love
Trinity
x

someone's picture

I am after removing wisdom tooth with complications, half of my face is swollen, I can barely open my mouth or swallow without pain (combined with fever and diarrhea it's not a best condition to have)

And here I try to accept the pain, to embrace it, not to struggle or be angry, to soften and to try to be fully involved in this experience instead of rejecting it.

I have ups and downs with it, but when I do relax and accept, it hurts much less and I even feel very peaceful and happy. And even if it goes away and I find myself struggling again, I accept it either, as part of the experience, and then I'm again peaceful and happy. So it works.

And also I feel that my body is having hard times, suffering and fighting, and I want to help it, to take care of it, but it's as if I'm not it, as if I'm someone else trying to help someone else, it's just that I also know what this body feels. It totally changes the experience.

Distracting the body works well too - like reading, watching a movie, concentrating on something else, but the pain.

And here's another interesting task - to accept your-ugly-self - I really don't look so great, you can imagine Smile

I find myself being worried for a moment, that I will one day look at myself in the mirror and won't think I look beautiful anymore.
And even though it sounds very shallow, but I'm not going to lie, it's an on and off issue.

I think that it is important to put some effort to look your best, so you bring joy to yourself and others, like any other beautiful thing.

But it's like a clothes, in the beginning it's new and the colors are bright, you wash it, iron it, make it look best and then it gets old and creased... time to change form.. The same attitude is better to have to the body.

So here I have a small training to learn to stop identifying myself with the way I look.

So here, I've got a lot to learn even from the tooth removal, good example I can learn from anything..

Smile

Chris Bourne's picture

Hey Yulia,

Thanks for your very honest sharing. Of course the key to solving any self realisation issue is self honesty. So if we are feeling pain, either emotional, physical or psychological, the key is to be honest about it with ourselves. Then to confront it head on. To feel it fully and to keep feeling it until we no longer identify with it.

I get the sense that your issue is revealing something particular (of course they always do). The fact that your face is swollen might mean you have to be silent more. Is that the case? Also with regards to the digestive problem, how is your diet? Have you tried a fast where you just drink fluids and conduct a good deal of meditation where you are just present with the pain.

Its all a case of deprogramming the bodymind of the conditioning its built up over time. Whilst we may see the route cause of the conditioned behaviour and let go of the attachment in an instant, the neural pathways that generate the repetitive cycles of action and reaction are hard wired into the brain. These can take a good while to dissolve. It's kind of like doing 'cold turkey' for a while. We have to keep confronting the moments where the behaviours happen but keep choosing not to identify.

When we've lost the identification, then the behaviour can dissolve too. At this point, as it starts to break down, the key is then to look for the lightness through and beyond the experience.

So I get the sense a persistent period of cold turkey might be in order!

Chris

someone's picture

Hi Chris,

Big thank you for your reply.

If I understand correctly, your point is that regardless of what is the "cause and effect" "physical" reason, all those symptoms are signs of things to be taken care of on a higher level?

I am under the deprogramming, but very slow and gentle, taking time. You say "cold turkey", usually it's pretty brutal, you think I'm going to this direction? I get signs to increase rate?

I feel fear when even talking about it, I guess it is an indication I should go there right away Smile

Those two you are talking about:

Being more silent is definitely something I'm working on lately, and I thought I was doing and feeling better, more balanced.

Digestion problems, I think, come from antibiotics I was given after the surgery..The diet is ok, I think, it's Gerber and vegetable juices mainly. But I felt a little sorry for myself and decided to let my body off the discipline for a moment and had some melted ice-cream Sad But the problems were before..after the antibiotics.

In general I balanced my diet good enough, guided by the response. But lately I did have some out of my routine family meals, you know what I mean..

Small question: what would skin rush mean to your opinion?
...

Thanks for tips again, I realy appreciate..
I'll pay even more attention now..

Yulia

someone's picture

I was thinking about what you said, Chris, and I was reading again different posts here...My posts also. And I felt like I have some sort of a shield on me sometimes when I'm comunicating, beyond the effort to be clear, precise and understood.

So I think that I'm scared to death, and I think that I just won't let the ship of the shore.

I'm holding on to what I have now. It's a comfortable place to be in - in between, a little of this, a little of that. I feel pretty good here at the moment. But I do feel those tiny pushes and I follow them, but very carefully, and usually when I don't feel I have a choice.

Also at the moment I feel it's right for me to finish my M.Sc and even go on to a doctoral, I feel that these are my properties to contribute somehow to the web and fulfill my own potential in this dimension, the low one. I feel it's important somehow right now. It takes much time and power.

But I can't neglect my evolution totally, I begin to feel something like decaying, dying, loosing interest and joy, loosing everything, so I try to balance.

I feel like I'm being cooked on low fire, I feel I'm taken care of, I feel the calls and I think I follow the major signs, I try to, but these symptoms might mean I'm stuck.

By the way, do you know what I'm talking about? the calls? Like something is pushing you, calling you, something high, wide, up, up..? I don't know how to explain..I feel that often. And when I began to listen to those pushes up, I found myself much happier and in my place...

So this thing you said scared me very much - this cold turkey means you feel I'll have some big effort here, big step..hard one.. I tried to feel if that's right, if I feel something ahead, but I can't tell the difference between fear, denial, laziness and the feeling that my time has not come yet.

So I'm confused. And scared.

I'll try to relax, trust and listen for an answer from deep within.

Big love Smile
Yulia

Chris Bourne's picture

Hey Yulia,

You know the real key to spiritual evolution is profound self honesty. When you write, in the space between the spaces, I can feel your soul. I get the sense that in actual fact, you are listening to your soul and you are being honest with yourself.

Some people will just leap headlong into the unknown and that is absolutely right for them. For others it will take more time and it will be a more gradual bit by bit breaking down. I feel your soul (like many others) taking this second route. And as for 'cold turkey', again it can either be done very quickly, or once more gently over time - a gradual weening off certain behaviours.

Ever heard the story of the tortoise and the hare? The hare races off into the distance but the tortoise, who is slow and careful, gets to his destiny first.

This is not a race. I found that I went through the first four Gateways (up to Resurrection) really quickly. So quickly that it was hard for those around me to keep track. However the last Gateway has been the most challenging of all.

For me, it has been a continual reconfrontation with the fragments of previous behaviours. Not that I was identifying with them, but nevertheless, my soul was contracting around certain circumstances.

The Gateways are not linear as such. The actually ceremonies are. So you cannot pass through Gateway 2 until you've completed Gateway 1. However, even though someone might only be in Gateway 1, its likely that they will be processing energies from further down the path - like karma for example which is only completely processed in Gateway 4.

So which is best then, fast or slow evolution? There is no right or wrong way. There is YOUR way. I reiterate, the key is profound self honesty. Someone who is going really quickly might be overriding and denying their true feelings - they might be simply suppressing blockages which could appear later on (denial is not a river in Egypt!).

On the other hand, someone who is going really slowly, might not be summoning enough courage to really take on those behaviours and really break them down. For each there is the right path through this. I sense that you are well aligned with your destiny. It feels like you've found centre stream within your flow.

So finally I will reflect back to you your closing words...

    "I'll try to relax, trust and listen for an answer from deep within"

Bingo! You got it in one. This is your soul speaking, you can hear it well.

Chris Smile

someone's picture

You know you gave me a little push by this "cold turkey" Smile

And I was sleeping on this for one day.

First of all, the day I've read your reply, at the moment I switched from light-mindedness about what and how I eat, even though nothing yet changed, the problem disappeared. I'm a little skeptic about miracles, but I do beleive in the power of thought, or "inner" power.

I didn't sleep at night, having breathing problems and a marathon runner's pulse, and then a headache all day after. In the evening I said, ok, something is trying to tell me something here. I'll listen.

I took my diary and a pen and closed my eyes and started to write..It was the first time I moved my mind and emotions out of the way and used it only to formulate what I felt beyond that.

And I wrote many pages... and then another "miracle" happened - no tooth or headache anymore!!! Voodoo!!!:0

I kept writing in the morning, after my morning-session, and now I feel so different, like I've lost my track before, and now I'm back on it.

And I'm not afraid at all anymore Biggrin

By the way, I use that trick sometimes in "life", when I'm afraid I try to turn it to curiousity by talking to myself. I didn't want to do it in this case, I wanted to see what will happen to the fear and where will it take me. It made me do something and then it was gone.

Thanks for the push,
Yulia

Chris Bourne's picture

you're most welcome Yulia Smile

Sometimes, when we contemplate our fears, they can seem all too overwhelming so we just don't want to go there. But if we can summon the courage to confront the fears, to bathe in the energy and take some simple and practical measures just as you have done, then we're likely to find the fears can dissolve quite quickly - just as they did for you.

Once we step out in the right direction, its amazing just how much we can be helped in these situations. Guidance appears from all over the place!

Chris

someone's picture

I had two interesting experiences lately.. I don't know why I felt like telling here about it..

1. One was at the sea: usually me and my husband were going to the sea early in the morning and there were few people there, it was quite...And three days ago we went at about 4 pm, and it was noisy, crowdy and I always felt bad, irritated ans scared when surrounded by too many people...

But then I felt this irritation and wanting to close, to hide only sometimes, a few moments, like an echo... I walked there as if it was the most perfect place in the world, I closed my eyes and felt reliefed,liberated, happy and free.

I don't know what that meant, but it felt like it's part of my evolvement, even that I didn't understand it at all. I just let it happen, opened and then felt connected to something very big, like expanded..elevated

2. Waiting for the bus: On Sunday I was going back home from the work late, and I take two buses, so I need to switch and I just always feel so bad there on that bus-station, really bad, it's like some dissonative place for me to be in...And also this "waiting for the bus" thing, when when will it come??? and looking and looking at the road..

Sometimes it takes 30-40 minutes to wait. So in the beginning I tried to accept, to embrace, to flow with all those feelings ( I remember that to try is tension too, but it's better than to stand and just suffer, I guess) and to observe, but it just didn't work..

And then I saw two girls leaving the station and starting to walk...I felt some impulse to follow, but what if the bus will come? I stayed...After 5 minutes another two girls left the station... Ok, another impulse...So I started walkin too.

After 1 minute walk I watched the bus I was waiting for pass near me, but then I didn't feel any regret, I felt happiness and relief from that waiting and being trapped in that station... And even though the weather was dry, with sand in the air, and all this smell of gases and denseness of this place, I walked and again felt this joy, freedom, happiness and I didn't care about the bus..

After 20 minutes walk I stopped at much more friendly station to..wait for the bus Smile And again I felt going back again, but still it was different than before.

I didn't understand what and why again, and suddenly I realised that I don't want or need to understand anything. Usually I have to analyse, to understand to drive conclusions, all that brainy stuff..It was gone, I felt like reading a zen koan Biggrin And I was ok with that...

That's all Smile

Trinity's picture

Sounds very liberating :innocent:

someone's picture

I don't know what to do

I have so much clutter in my body, everything hurts, everything is unbalanced.

I'm trying to understand all of this, to read what is it trying to say to me, but it looks too much, I even don't know what to start with.

The woman who took care of me in last two years said she can't help me, she treated me with massage and reflexology hoping it will balance me, but the only thing that happened is that she helped me to ease my back pain (my arm and neck weren't moving when I met her).

She said it's time for me to go to accupuncture. I feel I need to follow this advise, like it's going to take me somewhere I need to be.

In parallel, I'm trying not to identify, to go inside, to let go and let the Nature cure me, to trust it, to trust that I have everything I need. But I feel that I can open only for a second and then I close back very fast Sad

I tell myself, it's ok, not to hurry, not to panic, to accept. All the changes are supposed to be gradual, slow, without rushing and stress.

Also I feel disorganised, I can't go to sleep when I'm tired, can't follow my intuition even when I clearly feel what needs to be done.

My problems with sleeping came back again..
I feel totally despair. I can't concentrate, relax, I couldn't meditate even, I had all these ticks and fear..

What does it all mean?

Ben's picture

I know it might not feel it, but actually I see what you're experiencing has a lot of positives. For one thing, that you have some awareness of what's going on for you and are not trying to pretend it away. Also the physical sensations you are experiencing are not just physical sensations but energetic and the fact that you're feeling all these things suggests that quite a lot of energy is moving. You are processing old conditioning, patterns, maybe touching on karmic stuff, experienced in part through the bodymind. and this feels positive in my view because it indicates you're starting to not hold onto that stuff anymore but starting to release it. Energy is naturally in motion, so the fact that energy is moving - it seems like you're tuning more into the natural flow of the universe, and beginning to clear a path through to your true self.

So your bodymind is acting as messenger to say 'hey you've got this stuff to deal with now'. and I think a key to doing that is, as you already know, to go into it as much as you are able and try to find the cause, where it originated from, what is it all about? In my view you can try as many therapies as you like but if you don't address the cause the stuff will keep coming back in one form or another.
and yet also there are times when therapies, body work etc can be very powerful and useful tools in moving through this stuff, but it feels like its most powerful when coupled with the openness and honesty to go deep into the issue, to discover what its all about and be ready to release it. Because no one is responsible for your path and healing or working through your stuff apart from you. So in my view the fact that it has come up and is in your conciousness means you are in fact able to deal with it! How you do this is going to be a personal thing because its your own unique journey, but you'll know how if you're open to it. it could well involve therapies you're drawn to or moving exercises, walking, tai chi, massage, dancing, shouting etc. Also it may be worth looking at the food you eat, and how you support and nurture your bodymind. Again if you explore the issues I feel you'll be able to feel or be shown what's right for you.

and it feels like you have a lot of the answers within already. It may be just a question of putting those knowings into practice more and more, as it sounds like you're trying to do. even if it is just a few moments of awareness or presence to start.

Smile

someone's picture

How interesting that I came to the decision to follow wherever I'll feel to on my way to work, about the way to deal with all that stuff. After that I felt that the need to cure, to get rid of it was gone and I automatically got back to non-attachment and felt even more open than I usually was.

Thank you very much, Ben, your answer gave me new perspective and more acceptance and even peace in this state - energy moving, I think this is it. I felt this before, I think this is really something I am directed to deal with.

Something else I feel, I feel like I'm surrounded by something warm, good, loving and it's pushing me gently somewhere, and I clearly feel something is telling me not to worry, I'm being taken care of, protected and nothing bad can happen to me in this world.

At this point I would probably get some pills from the good doctors Biggrin

Ben's picture

hi there
I'm so glad you resonated with my post. Another thing I felt to add which i didn't say before, but which clearly comes through now, as you recognised it aleady - you are not alone out there! you're the only one who can walk your path, but also you are supported and guided in walking this path. and also connecting with others around the world as well. That's how I feel it. So keep going, keep walking, and keep attuning to the natural flow of the Universe!

someone's picture

I followed your recommendations (Ben),
and really all I did was - I removed the restrictions, stoped deciding how I should feel or behave and accepted this euphoria and was looking what does it bring with it...

This is what I found so far:
1. I'm very closed, like being afraid to open to people, to life, like I'm scared too (psychologically it may come from my tough childhood)
2. I found out something I thought I already solved! - I still have this need for my partner's support. I feel that he doesn't care, feeling offence by thinking that he doesn't want to help me (again I think I'm projecting my childhood problems - being raised without a father in very hard conditions with my mother having serious mental problems)
3. I always thought that I don't have any problems about my father abandoning us after a divorce, but now in my 29 I see clearly that I do have many problems associated with it. Like lack of trust in anybody including Nature, like being tough and "tomboy", like a man in me is very activated, also copying my mother in this... Problems to open to people, rejecting them, feeling lonely and many more.
4. My mother - I'm copying her, and these are not nice things at all.
5. Emotional memories - I feel that I want to forget, to deny my past, even though I'm much more ok with it now, after so many years of working on that. I don't want or dare to go in there. During last 2 years it was kind of solved and away, but I find out that it's a pandora box there. And lately these things go up to the surface again. I found myself crying again because I didn't have childhood, being unhappy most of my life and nobody loves me stuff Sad and this why me .. other people bla bla bla...

it goes in parallel with feeling grateful for my destiny and understanding that this is my path, and understanding that I suffered because I was going through this without consciosness, educated to identify with all the circus, I didn't have any choice, so it's a gift from Nature. I tell myself - let's build something from this mud...

But I feel confused. I don't know what to do with all this. So I'm waiting for the answer to discover itself, for hints from Nature. I'm trying not to resist or push it away because it's not ok with my ethics or moral/spiritual code or something, I'm trying to be what flows from me, even if I think it's wrong or inappropriate. It also helps me to deal with "what others think of me" limitation.

Also I forgot to mention that all this begun after I started my raw food detox (after a week), so maybe it is an emotional detox. So I will keep with that and try not to break. It's really interesting how I got to this detox -I was receiving hints for about a year already, but was rejecting it, until I was bombarded by signs, it was just everywhere.. So I did it. And now I have green kaka Biggrin (hope it's not too rude)

P.s.: also I got Chris's book on thursday, so I'm preparing myself to it, I feel that I'll have many answers there, so I need to make myself more open and clean a little before I open it.

Thank you again and again, I feel very supported here Smile
Yulia

Ben's picture

That sounds powerful stuff Yulia. It feels that things are flowing and moving in a positive direction. I really commend your courage and honesty, both for sharing what you're experiencing and also for 'going there' - for having the courage to look into 'pandora's box' and not run away from it. Again it sounds really positive.

I think its also important to appreciate that you probably can't (in my experience anyway) tackle it all at once. There's a lot of stuff coming up and to try and process it all at one time could be a little overwhelming! So maybe take things at a rate that feels appropriate, and support and honour yourself on this journey of discovery! Also you may find you can shed layers around some issues, and then the issue may arise again at later date but at a finer or deeper level, and you keep working with it until it completely dissolves. So don't expect you're necessarily being invited to deal with all of it at once!

Having said that however, it feels you're in a place now to really start going deeper into some of that stuff, and that you're being invited to attune to the momentum that has clearly been released and utilise that energy as a driving force. If you are aware of the stuff that's coming up then you can begin to see that you are not it, it does not define you, you are beyond it. Just keep observing, feeling, flowing. Surf the wave, rather than be flooded by it.
So go with the power of that, whilst also respecting that you can't do it all in one go! Don't force it, yet don't deny it. It feels like you're changing up a gear! Smile

its great to hear.

with love

Ben

Ben's picture

yep its something I'm still working on! Finding that balance between when to sit back and just be and when to actively engage with the creative or expressive process. Feeling out what's right. and also finding the clarity to see what's honestly being invited in each choice, in each moment.
I guess we're all works in progress at the moment! Smile

someone's picture

1. Things keep getting up to the surface: yesterday it was the tightness in rhe diaphragma area, I had difficulty breathing...I was trying to see what it means, but then I felt it's not the way, I just needed to let it up and breathe. Then this hyper-appetite, scratching myself, being unquite and talkative (I have these usually before "moontime", now it's not the time), feeling like evrything around is cluttered, messy... I let it up and that was all I did.

Today those were gone, but I'm bloated like a dirigible, feeling exausted...but happy.

And all these days I feel I want to communicate, to open, to see people ( I don't think it's detoxification, because usually I'm not like that), and at the same time to have time with myself, alone (two opposite impulses). Maybe deep inside I was much more "friendly" than I thought (I keep discovering this side).

2. Today it was the second time I felt something interesting. On Saturday it happened for the first time - I was walking on a beach with my husband in the evening, I closed my eyes, and as I feel often lately, I felt elevated, uplifted, like filled with something big and wide and feeling connected to it... I closed my eyes and kept walking and feeling the sand and water touching my feet, and suddenly I felt something, it's hard to explain.. like this thing under my feet is alive... The same thing happened to me today, I was walking on the grass on my way to the work, it was terribly hot, I closed my eyes and felt it again..alive, like communicating or something... I felt immediately open, I had this smile inside..also after I opened my eyes and looked at the ground...it felt so..I don't have words Sad

3. In general, at the moment I can concentrate, center and feel my inner-self or this "big thing" only with my eyes closed.
I found new way to write in my diary - with my eyes closed. I discovered it a couple of weeks ago (after my tooth operation and Chris's advise to see what all this pain might tell me) - it's always mind writing and trying to design things, to control things, to force itself on me, my experiences, to make decisions and make plans...
Now I close my eyes and letting something from the inside to speak, then I open my eyes and write it down.

And it's amazing!!! - it feels and sounds (reads) so different, like there is someone else, someone different inside of me, much softer, kinder, wiser inside of me... I write the usual way and then this way and compare...So different..

Also I learned some new recipes from raw-foodists...I'll share them separately..

Sending love to all Smile
Yulia

someone's picture

I am experiencing here something very big!!!

This feeling of the ground under my feet I told about is turning to something else.

Two days ago I found some island of ground and grass here in this beton-blocked place. I was again walking on it and having this feeling of something "talking to me", some kind of communication, I don't know, energy...

But this began to go up and up through my legs and I felt my coccyx and bottom belly relaxing, like something is flowing up and simultaneously something is flowing down from me to the ground. And joy filling up my chest. Then freedom, feeling of freedom and home, belonging to something.

Lately I was getting these ideas of bringing more childish things into my life...And after I experienced this from-ground-flow I became somewhat idiotic - I jump and touch things, close my eyes all the time, and I care much less how I look. It's even funny to think how a relatively free from "normal" behavior individuum would look like- much happier, I guess Biggrin

In parallel I keep having stuff coming up, still hard to let go of control, judging, and just leave it all alone, keep getting impulse to solve, to cure, etc, Hard to breathe all the time, like something is restricting it..

And...QUESTION: In Chris's book he says that we need nothing, everything we need is inside, and if we need something it means that we are false selves..but..we are still in physical body, and body needs things, and we take care of it.
For example, I feel I need to find some other place to live, following inner impulse, or I need to buy food, because I already ate everything I nave, niam niam..

I guess I don't understand what it means..

Thank you and big love,
Yulia

someone's picture

I found these two meditations that worked for me to learn to observe without judging:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6Oj-eavtpo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYi4FKUQpR8&NR=1

Ben's picture

it sounds like you're experiencing some profound unfolding Yulia. and naturally you’re feeling changes on a physical level aswell as the spiritual experiences, after all its not really separate.

In regards your question

Yulia said:

    "And...QUESTION: In Chris's book he says that we need nothing, everything we need is inside, and if we need something it means that we are false selves..but..we are still in physical body, and body needs things, and we take care of it."

I don't know if Chris would explain it the same way, but how I feel is that its something of a paradox but BOTH are valid in my view, because yes we don't need anything outside of ourselves AND yes, the physical body etc has 'needs' too. I think though these are not mutually exclusive things.

In an Absolute sense the world that we see and experience around us IS within us, as is the body! Its a reflection of Being. So when you feel (ego-led) 'need' or desire for something, its a distraction or a falsehood because all you're desiring is something that only exists as idea or illusion, somewhere in a non-existant 'future'. It acts as substitute for a sensation that you perceive or experience within already, without having that external thing. The desire is distortion because it just puts another divide between what you see as 'yourself' and what you perceive as the object desired! It implies that there is a lack of something, or a limitation in Experience.

In a Relative Sense “the soul needs no particular outcome” but flows with the Universe. But there may still be a genuine sense of purpose and impulse. So you may feel an authentic ‘pull’ (as opposed to an ego-led need/desire fulfilment) to experience something, which may appear to be fulfilling an external 'need'. However it is not doing so, but rather simply attuning with the natural flow – if the body needs food it will be fed, if you feel to move house you attune to that and go with the unfolding of it etc, and sometimes it is appropriate to give energy or attention to something too.

So the answers aren’t outside yourself, and therefore all you ‘need’ to do is to attune to what you feel authentically within (the pull of the Soul) and flow with that. It’s not being controlled by an external need anymore, more a story playing out around you.

That's how I view it anyway, I'm not necessarily right! We all have our own truth, own answers within. To me its like the flow of energy within can find expression in the 'external world' in particular ways, so we don't need to go looking for anything outside of ourselves, just flow with what we're feeling within. and Trust (as Trinity talks about… http://www.openhandweb.org/110610_ultimate_test_trust).

with love

Ben

Chris Bourne's picture

Yes well said Ben.

The soul doesn't need anything to be what it truly is, but we are having a human experience and the body certainly needs things to continue to thrive and exist - food, water and air are simple examples.

I've found it a constant challenge (and opportunity) to continually explore the interplay, the interface, between soul and body. It's in the gray areas of day to day living where we are seemingly pulled in opposite directions that the
greatest self realisation opportunities are to be found.

Chris

someone's picture

Like I was telling, this feeling of being belong, home, protected and happy happens to me in the meantime only when I'm with my feet on the ground, bare ground...I feel something climbing up and all the body relaxes.

But now the rest of the time I feel "not home", excitated, out of balance... So the natural thing is to want to grab that home feeling again. This is what we are used to do - a beautiful thing - I want it to be mine...beautiful food - necessarily I have to eat it, etc.

I try to observe it, not to get scared and lost, see what it means.. Most of the time I'm kicked out of the concentration, it's hard to be aware all the time with all the distractions, but I clearly see that it becomes more and more frequent - in and out states.

Interestingly, in parallel, I begin to feel suffering from the noise more and more...from all the cars..and all these shops..plastic everywhere...suffering from seeing people outside with all the behavior and values...For example - I go out of the house and start walking, all open and happy, and then someone on the street looks at me with the look, you know, the evaluating look, and I shrink back Sad

I ask myself why - I'm not sure..

I feel like an impulse to run and hide, away. Closer to someplace green and isolated..but then I ask myself 2 things:

Maybe this impulse and the increasing noise intolerance happen for a purpose and if I move because I feel bad here, it's like hiding from it, denying it.

On the other hand, maybe it's a sign for me, like - "you have to find some place quiet..I don't react, so it speaks louder - find some place quiet"

I wait for it to be clear, but it doesn't get any clearer in the meantime. It just gets more and more intense..

So I just sit here.

Ben's picture

Well I can certainly relate to that. Sometimes I really wonder what I'm doing here! Then, generally I realise it doesn't matter anyway - I'm here, so I may as well get on with it!

I find that when I actually do just 'get on with it', live and BE PRESENT within it, it seems I can see more of the beauty in the world, even as it is, without feeling the need to change it. I feel there's the potential in every happening and experience to realise it as a gift, because it reflects back to us how we are being and where we still may have work to do. Personally I feel I’m here at this time for a purpose and that doesn't appear to be to hide away from the world or go live on top of a mountain, even if I might want to!

Its interesting you mentioned about the challenges of increasing sensitivity – that’s featured quite big for me too, especially earlier on. I found even going to the local shops felt like ‘going into battle’ at one stage. and it felt difficult or pointless to try to explain to others how such everyday experiences could sometimes feel so overwhelming.
As I was becoming increasingly more sensitive my living environments proved quite challenging for a time - living in shared households I found the bark of a dog or just a telephone ringing could be a little destabilising, because I felt every bark or loud noise as a jolt of energy. After a while though I think I began to accept it, rather than try to ignore it or tighten around it. There wasn’t much I could do about it. I found I began to even laugh at the situation!

I feel like this and many other challenging incidences with the matrix have all been testing and helping me learn to be open AND be okay with being in the world. and I find similar experiences continue to be presented fairly regularly(!) - to see where I might still get 'tight' and to show me a mirror of how I'm being.

So even though we might not be choosing the experiences, we can choose how we respond to them.

with love

Ben

someone's picture

After I was scared almost to death and felt as stuck as I could get, a day after Chris's response, I got the next things:

1. A breakthrough, something powerful, even a bit overwhelming - as if something changed in me, kind of shift to a new state. Since then I'm walking with a wierd feeling that something is "holding my spine". My posture, movements and voice have changed, my eyes got more open!!! Also I feel things, I don't exactly understand what they are, but it's something new...

2. I got again these signs to do a detox, now even more intense - with epsom salts and oil (a liver detox) and again many signs to go raw (I admit, I still resist it and trying to bargain on "maybe a little")

3. Since yesterday some kind of a wave is going through me - I feel very strong and I do things that I always felt weak to do (like walking with heavy bags, or standing in a bus holding myself and the bags with my "so weak in the past" hands, arms and legs, giving my husband, who is a professional sportsman, a massage, in past I wouldn't survive 5 minutes, for an HOUR!!!) - it is also some kind of a "fighter" energy, like something brave and "ready to war"...

4. It all is accompanied by a greater disconnection with people surrounding me, like I'm in a new mode now, they relate to me as I was before, but I'm not there. So I'm trying to feel, I'm learning to communicate again.

5. I feel much more able to watch, to be aware, I still loose it, but even this I feel I see differently now.

6. I feel free, like something in me was unleashed..Wohohoooo Biggrin

7. And now things keep revealing themselves to me, the distortions, but I spot the fear almost immediately and trust myself in the hands of this thing that I feel is pulling me and goes through me. It's like a magic.

I'm so happy!!!

Another interesting and funny thing - I finished Chris's book, closed it and immediately opened it again, page 1 Biggrin Such an inspiration, such a help.

All I can say is THANK YOU so much, I don't even know exactly to whom, because I feel there are more of "YOU" to all the people on this site, whose work is influencing and "lifting" others, including me.

LOVE TO ALL,
Yulia

Trinity's picture

Hi Yulia!
This is all amazing! I can really feel the unleashing that you talk of here. How interesting when we move onwards and we are still looked at or related to as if we are the 'person we used to be'.
Keep riding the wave - trusting - unfolding. You are doing great!
Love and hugs
Trinity
:innocent:

someone's picture

Hi,

Time for me to deal with "old baggage"...

I have a question: if I know what I'm addicted to and how it affects my body and my path (causes me to be sick and more dense), then what should I do?

I mean should there anything else be done besides observing, not needing to cure it and not identifying?

On one hand, I feel like letting it be, and learn not to blame myself and not to be angry with myself, observing the emotional and physical suffering it causes me.

On the other hand I have a pull to undergo a rehabilitating process, which would mean impose something on the body, by understanding the importance of being more light and being able to direct the energy to something else, but trying to recover every time I "abuse the body".

Is it both?

I asked for the higher guidance, and I also would like to ask for your natural response rising Smile

Thank you,
Yulia

Chris Bourne's picture

Hi Yulia,

You ask a great question. Of course there are many tools, writings and advice available out there from hypnosis to NLP. Personally, I've found that if we simply try to suppress the addiction/distortion by doing something more favourable, all we tend to do is brush the behaviour patterns under the proverbial carpet only for them to arise again later in some other guise or format.

Indeed these new distorted behaviours can then be even more difficult to grasp and deal with. For me personally and in my work with other people, I've observed it is much better to be totally honest with ourselves about the distortion and inquire deeply into it rather than just trying to overwrite it. It's kind of like pruning bind-weed in your garden. No matter how much you do it, it will always come back with a vengence unless you thoroughly dig up the roots.

I've described the Openhand approach to dealing with addictions and distortions in my book Five Gateways. I felt to publish a small section here...

Dealing with distortions and addictive behaviour: confront and deal with all arising distortions and addictive behaviour
So how do we deal with the distortions? We could try to resist or conceal them by switching our attention to a more favoured reality. However, we can only avoid the truth for so long. What we resist persists and sooner or later our conditioned behaviours will reappear, although perhaps this time, in some other guise which may be even more difficult to spot.

In my experience, the key to dealing with distortions is to realise each conceals a divine gift of beingness and to ultimately unveil that instead. So, for example, someone might smoke because it gives them the feeling of relaxed completeness - this feeling is already present as a condition of our soul. We simply need to peel away the internal barriers to that experience. Here is a five step process for dealing with all types of addictive behaviour which can help greatly...

  1. Accept the distortion has a purpose: First, accept the distortion is there for a purpose which is to help us learn something about ourselves. If we contemplate this deeply and do not allow ourselves to be judged for the behaviour (everyone has similar issues of one form or another), then we find that we can be awesomely okay with the ‘problem’.
  2. Do not fight the distortion: When we are awesomely okay with something, we do not tighten around the issue and do not make it worse than it already is. So, rather than fighting the behaviour, we should experience it as much as we want to. For example, if we cannot resist eating, smoking, drinking, being angry or controlling etc. keep on doing it, be absolutely clear not to feel bad about it, but also be completely honest about the distortion.
  3. Ask what the problem reflects about what we are being?
    When we are satiated with our ‘fix’ which each distortion fulfils, ask “what does this behaviour give me on the inside?” With anger it might be the release of frustration; with drinking it might be the feeling of confidence; with arrogance it might be self esteem. Now settle into that positive feeling which the repetitive cycle has provided, knowing that the feeling is inside of us all the time without the need of the addictive behaviour to initiate it.
  4. Stoke the inner flame: Over time, we will discover an ‘inner flame’ - the soul - which begins to smoulder around the authentic feelings and becomes stronger the more we focus on them. The more we stoke the developing flame, the stronger it becomes until ultimately, we realise it is the ONLY worthwhile thing having. Then we discover that the addiction has downsides that can diminish or even extinguish this inner flame.
  5. When the flame is high enough, make the higher choice: Once we have discovered how to find the flame without any external influence and we know that the distortion ultimately extinguishes the flame, then at some point, we will be ready to give up the addiction and make the higher choice; that which has the power to make us feel good the whole time. There are likely to be many occasions before this point is reached where we give in to the addictive behaviour; be awesomely okay with that, but keep watching and being completely honest with ourselves about it. Eventually we will make the realisation that nothing can ignite our destined flame of beingness, but our own inner focus; however, the inner flame has to be high enough first in order to make that authentic choice.

The key is to remember that the experience of relaxed completeness is what we already are and all we really need to do is remove the barriers to that sublime state. If we confront the distortion, then we can release it and move through it. Avoidance simply delays the inevitable causing more suffering; the only way out is through.

Chris
PS: If you haven't already, you can buy or download a copy of Five Gateways here...Five Gateways

someone's picture

Of course I did, I finished it and started again Biggrin (the book)

I gradually begin to get used to working with my "food addiction" the way you describe in your book (and in your response, thank you very much :)).

I understand, that your answer is to keep working on it this way without doing anything else "physically"...

For example, how did you get rid of sugar addiction, you wrote about in your detoxification story?

Note:
...I'm sorry to see how many times you have to repeat everything, again and again, but we know that this is how it works. One just can't digest and implement things after reading or hearing one-two times...

And big changes are made by small steps, and sometimes it feels we don't move at all, stuck at the same point - so it's the same questions, it seems, the same answers, but every time a little different anyway Smile

Thanks for your patience,
Yulia

MarkyMark's picture

Yulia, I hope you do not mind me adding my experience. I was addicted to smoking for many years. I had 'tried' to give up many times and it normally lasted about 2 or 3 days. One day I was speaking to a friend of mine and she had given up smoking. I moaned about how difficult it was to give up, and she said 'don't give up, just don't smoke anymore'. For me this meant instead of giving myself this huge mountain to climb of never smoking again in my whole life, all I had to do was be present (I see this now), and when my habit to smoke came, I would just deal with it in that momment and say to myself 'I will not smoke now'. Most of my addiction was habit, and I could deal with moment without having to worry about the future. I have also been using Trinity's recipes as a way of removing processed sugar from my food. I am still working on it, but I don't beat myself up if I have some junk food occassionaly. Mark

Chris Bourne's picture

Hi Yulia,

How right you are! Dealing with addictions requires a constant conscious choice. I often observe in spiritual circles how there seems to be some kind of expectancy (not with you I'm sure) that we can wave a 'spiritual wand' and everything will be simply okay.

Of course, in reality, it is not at all like that - at least not if we want the changes to be truly lasting. The key, as Mark suggests, is to become absolutely present and honest about the choices we are making and why. At the same time not to beat ourselves up about them.

If we become present in the moment and truly explore what's going on for us, then we start being able to feel the sensations the addictions are generating. It is then that we have the power to choose our response rather than react to the conditioning.

You ask about my past sugar addiction? It came from having done a great deal of sport in my earlier life at a highly competitive level. After each event (rowing), my blood sugar levels were low. Of course society would encourage replacing the sugars as quickly as possibly - and of course corporations have exactly the 'right' solution. For me it was "a mars a day helps you work, rest and play".

Except of course the wrapper doesn't add "gets you addicted to sugar, puts on fat, causes diabetes and can result in death!". Not to mention the fact that it makes life increasingly difficult to tune into and follow our soul because it can make us less present.

So the way it manifested in my spiritual life, was that after a seminar or workshop, where I'd given loads of energy, I felt depleted and would tend to reach for the chocolate bar or sugary food.

As soon as I became aware of the pattern, the invitation was to work with it, to be present with it. To realise also that at the heart of every distortion is a truth. So my body was depleted and I did need some "me" time.

So instead, I worked on being present, not identifying with the feelings of depletion, found healthy alternatives to the sugar, and took some quality "me" time to recouperate.

It takes time, perseverance and much internal attention, but this is exactly the path of spiritual growth and evolution anyway. It is not an easy path to walk, but very fruitful.

Spiritual evolution requires a constant conscious choice... constantly!!!

Chris
PS and just to reiterate, if we are watching ourselves in this way, but 'stray from the path', the key is to accept what we are being and not beat ourselves up about it. Instead just keep honouring who we are until we feel we can make the higher choice Smile

someone's picture

Thank you, Mark and Chris for your responses.

I guess "bending", "breaking" and fighting myself is an old habit trying to wear itself in a more "gentle form" of "let's just make some small changes".

Also I can see I'm not honouring myself at all, this need to be someone I imagine is better than I am now...

It does feel more in tune to let the change come from the inside, even if it will be very slow..
Now from paper to life...

Thank you again for helping me "to sort the wheat from the chaff" Smile

Love,
Yulia

someone's picture

Here are some of the things happening to me lately:

~My computer, washing machine and air-conditioner don't work, strange coincidence, don't you think? Smile Anyway, computer was "dying" slowly during a couple of months, and the machine is very old, so last week I found myself "swimming" around my place, and then enjoying the hand-washing ~5 kg laundry.

Of course, it all will be fixed and back to work, I got this feeling that I only have to see I can be alright without too, while for other people I beleive living without power, water and washing machine Smile would seem a disaster, but I already survived it in my childhood hehe..so not a problem..Also I wash most of my laundry with hands anyway..

Well, this experience was fun and an uplift..

~I suddenly felt that I should be given a new name, more fit to who I feel I am now, out of the record, you know, just for me and really close people. So me and my husband played a little with what names we feel resonate with us the most (not names, but combinations of sounds)...And interestingly we found that some of the sounds of our present names do resonate with more authentic us...

So maybe when the names are chosen from the "names list", somehow anyway the name will have sounds which will fit the most (because I don't think that it's because we are used to our names)? I don't know if it's important at all...But it was interesting at least as a game or an exercise- it made us going really deep inside ourselves and expressing what we felt in sounds..

Anyway, it would be interesting for me to know how would someone else feel with this "game", if anybody feels like trying Smile

~I have fear attacks, that I'm not going to make it in time, that I don't have enough time left...I treat it as a distortion - fear to die, a need of a progress..And this fear is also about other people...

~It's becoming really hard for me to communicate with people around me, as if the "language" is changing for me, and if I try to be comprehendable, then I feel that I'm not true to myself. Actually, most of the time I feel like not talking at all, while the habit is to talk constantly, so I'm learning this one.

Also I feel a strong pull find people who I could communicate with. I mean, isolation makes me feel not in my place, but being in touch with people I know feels "like a kick out" for me. Maybe it's something temporary, but in the meantime I feel "getting far away", almost physically, like I'm here, but not really, I don't know how to explain..

~I discover something really interesting.. My body is more of the "fire" type (dominant pitta type, often getting out of balance). Thus I always considered myself as warm-blooded, active, kind of "fight-or-flight" all the time, angry, scared, closed, and dominant.

To my great surprise as deeper I go the more I find that there is something else, like I feel this gentle, slow, soft, curious, open and happy something is expanding from the inside..

~Some days I feel that I "lost it" and become sad, and then I immediately remind myself that it's an attachment to progress, relax and become open again. Paradox. There are days that everything seems to be stuck or back to the lower state, but I keep in mind that there are often "unseen flows", and I say to myself to keep open and be sensitive and not expect anything to happen.

~It's such a great happiness in this paradox - that when I give up this control I always hold to so much, it's then when I feel free and happy. Who could imagine that there is such a thing for an adult - living in a world when nothing is certain and everything is new, when you don't know what to expect and what is awaiting you tomorrow, there is something new to discover every day, so many things to learn,feeling like life is a big adventure, where everything is a gift, with this big curiousity and heart filled with so much joy that it brings happy tears to my eyes..

This is where I am at the moment...

(Missed you without the computer)

Yulia

Trinity's picture

Yulia wrote: "It's becoming really hard for me to communicate with people around me, as if the "language" is changing for me, and if I try to be comprehendable, then I feel that I'm not true to myself. Actually, most of the time I feel like not talking at all, while the habit is to talk constantly, so I'm learning this one.

Also I feel a strong pull find people who I could communicate with. I mean, isolation makes me feel not in my place, but being in touch with people I know feels "like a kick out" for me. Maybe it's something temporary, but in the meantime I feel "getting far away", almost physically, like I'm here, but not really, I don't know how to explain.. "

As we go deeper and deeper within we find that words are a mere 'scratching of the surface' when it comes to communication. When we feel things from the soul often words are inadequate to convey what we are experiencing. It sounds like your yearning is to connect with people on a soul level - there is much superficiality going on in the world. Many people I know who are touching the levels of beingness that you are, become increasingly discerning about who to share time with, only connecting with only those who they are divinely given to.

I feel much more comfortable within a higher dimensional 'world' where words fall away altogether! This is an experience where we transfer knowing with unhindered clarity, without the need to find half-fitting words. Your feeling of "getting far away" sounds like the journey of ascension. I often experienced this as a pull to leave this place (until I found that what I was looking for was actually within me all the time :innocent: ).

Keep taking those steps. You are doing great!
x

someone's picture

There is a saying that "any word spoken is a lie".... meaning that anything put into the words will be distorted...

But I still find that the words are not "such a bad thing", but the use of them is maybe just not correct.

I can find beauty in words, in literature, poetry, where there is harmony of sounds and images...also books, in particular the 5 gateways, it's all words. These words help me a great deal Smile

Benevolent consciosness sometimes is speaking to us through words..

I think that there are no "wrong" things in this world, but just maybe the wrong application.

So I agree, that for communication, at least at the moment, I find words not doing any good.. and I prefer to be silent, if I can overcome this growing tension in the air in the world of people hiding behind noise just not to hear their inner voices speaking and fearing to express themselves as they are... and maybe they are right, because they ARE being constantly watched and judged, so it takes a courage to follow your truth no matter what and be ready to accept whatever consequences may be.

I'm still kind of yo-yo... it takes some time..

Anyway, I'm glad that words serve us to communicate here on this site Biggrin

Just small words, as limited as they may be, but maybe we can feel something behind them:

LOVE AND BIG HUGS TO ALL,

Yulia

Trinity's picture

Yulia wrote: "I can find beauty in words, in literature, poetry, where there is harmony of sounds and images...also books, in particular the 5 gateways, it's all words. These words help me a great deal

I wouldn't be too sure that it's "all words" though Smile When I read the book I am feeling (or reading) something even beyond the words and feel a transfer of energy that defies words. Words simply offer a doorway or a signpost to what we are really yearning to find.

someone's picture

Aha, here it was a good example of words distorting the idea Biggrin

I didn't mean that ONLY words are there ;).. but that the book is all words (all full of words)..tricky tricky..

We are saying the same, actually.. we can use words to express or to transfer something...And if we express our truth and let the words out through harmony, then it would be the "right" application of words, just like any other "right action"...

And then they wouldn't be something we would want not to use maybe. It's the lie and the distorting the spontaneous harmoneous universal flow of things that makes words 'scratching of the surface' and be "half-fitting" :(, but when used in a proper manner, they might even contribute to communication, and instead of "hiding" colors, would add expressional "strokes" here and there Smile

Anyway, it was funny, the "misunderstanding" :~]

Trinity's picture

:lol:
silence is golden

someone's picture

I get to see the "light" after couple of days in the "darkness" Smile

During ~ two weeks I had my ups and downs, in terms of my choices, and somehow gradually the choices were becoming more and more dense and low. I was feeling myself anxious and trying to grasp back all those "pleasant" expansions and sensations, but the more I was desperate, the more I was getting dense and I was just "sinking in the mist"... until I felt absolutely lost and oucast Sad

I came to the next realizations..(Now, I know many are written and discussed, but these I actually really experienced recently):

1. All my actions are related to and influencing my state, thus all the choices, especially what to bring my attention to and what to focus on, influence the next moment, while all of these moments accumulating to an "account" and having an unbeleivably huge impact on the way I feel, think, behave and how I perceive myself. So it's a little scary, what responsibility it is, but on the other hand, you know you always have a choice.

2. Less important whether to do something or not, but WHY to do things... I mean, to keep in "mind" what's important to me... Because I felt it's really easy to attach to all the physical and mental benefits of eating "right", and doing things "right", feeling so "right", after you folow the guidance and discover all that...And when this happened, it was really difficult for me to even notice that I got attached to it as a lifestyle and loose the WHY... I was just given the greatest gift of "compulsion" to something so opposite of what I considered "right" and fixed it in my mind, which led me to notice my "blind deviation" from the path.

I think, that as a reference whether something has become a solid habit, now I'll pay attention more and ask how would I feel if I did the opposite - if I feel ok, and ready to accept it if that's what is coming at that moment, then I'm not attached, and if I feel a need to keep things in a certain way, an anxiety to let it go, then..I'm probably lost in a doctrine. Now I see some of those..

3. At the moment I realized this WHY, I felt almost immediately that "the problem" disapeared.. Yesterday I went to the restaurant in the evening and felt ok, with eating cheesy and sweet, and getting out of there with a "watermelon belly" Biggrin

So today in the morning, like some kind of magic, all the cravings and all the obsessive thoughts were gone, as if it was a last exam yesterday....

Moreover, I was ready to give up yoga and relaxation in the morning (I've planned)....it took ah hour before I felt like doing it in a more spontaneous way... and in the meantime followed the pull to "be stuck " on the internet... and was brought to the next info...to be continued in the next post, because it's another topic...sex (shhhhh) Smile

someone's picture

This is how me and my husband humouristically call it Biggrin

But not all was funny between us... From the beginning of our relationship we had a problem with "it", many tears were wept and much anger, despair, hatred, grudge, pain and you don't want to know what else accompanied us during ~ 4 years as a consequence of this problem..

Interestingly, the problem was not physical at all, and also not emotional, since we "liked" each other very much, but more as if we could not find a "language" to speak, some kind of communicational problem.

Later, about 2 years ago I realized I was obsessive about this topic - our society methodically and succesively convinced me that this is the most important (>70% of the relationship!!!!) thing in marriage, all the journals and all the movies are depicting exactly how it has to be done ideally, where to look, how to touch and where to pull Smile ... and even how to feel, and now everybody has a very detailed picture of all the process in their head. Sex - a garage treatment of the bodies, sex - a perfect way for people to exploit and abuse each other physically and mentally, sex - a horror of all who are not fitting the stencil.

Now, after I caught myself having this perfect idea how it all is supposed to be and finally realizing that was the reason to all my disappoinments and suffering, starting from "we simply must do it at least twice a week" (what an absurd!), the first thing I did is let it go. We don't have to do it at all! It's just another way to communicate and to connect, but we can't communicate and connect because of the anger and disappoinment, because we don't have sex as normal people should have. Well, that was the loop.

Since then I learned many things, including one of the most important lessons - taking responsibility, understanding that I build my own "reality". Also I realized that no sex is possible when people are not whole with themselves, if they can't be sensitive to themselves and get in tune with themselves, express fully their most inner essence,then it's totally impossible to do it with someone else.

Also very fast it became clear that the concept itself is misunderstood, distorted and simply turned into a "monster".

We began to do it less and less, until now we barely do it (in a conventional way), and most of the time I feel ok about it. And, miraculously it didn't ruin our marriage despite all the warnings and threats Biggrin On the contrary, we built a very interesting relationship: each has a freedom to do whatever he chooses right to do, while trusting each other's discretion and responsibility for the consequences, respect each other's choices, don't expect anything from each other, don't take anything for granted, but still saying each other what we feel, what bothers us and what would make us feel good, so we can cooperate...
We're still working on flowing with each others' "track", trying not to interrupt or distort the expression of the other, it's hard, considering all the habits and "parents" copycat.

But lately I began to feel that we can experiment with it a little. For example, I totally consider a "sexy time" Smile just being together in one bed (we sleep separately), talking, expressing our emotions in any manner we feel, opening to each other, trying to resonate with each other..if we feel "touchy", then we go with it, but we don't have to get to anything, no "plan" whatsoever, no goal..and it's such a great pleasure and such a freeing and uplifting experience.

Few understand that "sex" can be just any situation and place, when two peole feel they resonate with each other, connect with each other, trust and open to each other, express themselves freely and openly, even if it's to be silent, and not doing anything, and felling perfect with it..

I feel like i'm learning everything from the beginning - to walk, to eat, to talk, about the body, how it works and about the world.. and about ..what sex is. I seems that ignorance, sickness and madness are ruling the world,how could we fall so low?

I guess to rise again...

Anyway, about a week ago I felt a little tensed sexually, as usually before the moontime, but then I had this idea, why not accepting it and let it flow through me just like anything else? When I did so, I felt some kind of intense energy climbing up through me, and it was feeling very "consuming" and powerful, but pleasant. I discovered that it can be "manipulated", or directed somehow...

So what did I find on the internet today?

I've read Chris's article about tantra, and then found some sources about sexual energy and techniques, etc. Even though I'm not intending to spend my whole spare time to learn how to do it :), but I'll see where it's taking me, we know that everything is serving our spiritual path, if we follow the guidance..

someone's picture

I'm still in shock:

Yesterday in the evening I was feeling absolutely depressed, as if all the life has left me. I was feeling angry and left by IT alone in the "dark and scary world" Sad So I didn't know how to deal with it, and old habits came back - I began to blame evrything and everybody, feeling that nothing good awaits me, that I'm doomed to live this empty life and to die like a dog, lonely and sad... and I was spilling all my grief to my husband, until I finally began to blame him too. I couldn't stop, but at some point I began to feel something else simultaneously- like a prayer, a begging:
"Get me out!", "help me out", "I can't deal with it", "I can do nothing", (I really could do nothing, it was beyond my power to observe, to accept, to relax, to do any of that)...

But nothing happened, until I began to cry out of dismay..and kept begging, trying to find the connection,with all my strength, trying to go back to the center, but it was all blocked. No passage for me...

It was so hard, that I don't remember when the last time I needed to "climb" so hard for my life. There was no place for acceptance or flowing with it at that moment, it was a moment of "find it" or fall.

After a while I was begging like the biggest nagger in the world..and suddenly it was gone,I mean in half a second. It was a fast switch to another state. I was "back to life", I was open, I felt the currents of life flowing through me, my mind was clear and open, and all the rest was at the background, I was aware of everything, but I was someplace else.

I didn't do anything, but crying and begging, and if it was not The Power filling me and lifting me up out of the emotional and physical terror I was in, then I don't know what it was..

P.s:I didn't find any description of anything like that in openhand articles..I mean, usually the trick is to accept, embrace and bath in, but I assure you, it was impossible, it was like begging and "praying" was all left to do..

I'll be grateful for some clarification, or maybe someone had a similar experience?...

Trinity's picture

Hi Yulia,

I am familiar with this experience, perhaps not the same circumstance; but rather the experience of being in the burning fires of hell and then after a while, all of a sudden being filled with a heaven sent light.

The only thing that has ever taken me through it is full acceptance of it. Sometimes this may be gentle, letting go whilst observing. Other times it may much less gentle as the primal scream manifests itself in many ways (as you describe).

You wrote: "I really could do nothing, it was beyond my power to observe, to accept, to relax, to do any of that... "

When I have experienced this in the past I did not try to relax, accept, observe or anything. It's pretty hopeless when you are in the middle of a tornado! It reaches a thresh hold where it seemed impossible to do anything other than to ride the wave of energy. So much energy is being channeled through the system that it is almost impossible to handle - yet we do integrate it. It pushes the boundaries, stretching our limitations to the max. In my experience I have no choice but to immerse myself in it. I would actually call that 'bathing' in it. I would allow whatever I feel then to arise as you did. I wouldn't deny it or try to control it. The key is in feeling it fully. Only then will it pass. The energy you release will unblock the blockage, taking us to a place of expansiveness and liberation.

This is quite a typical experience for some when releasing karmic blockages or letting go of attachments from past lives. You might not necessarily know what it is you are experiencing (you might not understand why) but it feels like you have peeled away a layer or are a lot lighter afterwards.

There is a divine paradox at work here. Surrendering to the process isn't always gentle. Letting go in a tornado will feel like it tears you to pieces, but you'll get through and start flowing with higher consciousness before you know it.

I hope this helps a little. Or at least to let you know that you are most certainly not alone.

I didn't get to where I am on the gentle winds. It was the tornado that brought me here.

Trin
x

someone's picture

I see..
thank you very much, I think that's what happened...

I can see that my imagination of what surrendering and accepting are - gentle, with the "Budda smile" is not always like this at all...So I kind of thought that I was going "wrong" and giving in to the distortion.

Hmmm...Well, I guess this kind of stuff revealing itself doesn't leave much choice, but to surrender, since it seems to totally consume and just like you say "tear to pieces", it's a very exact description of what I felt.. there was not much choice but to call for help...

Ok..I think I'll pay more attention to where my imagination is on the way, preventing from watching what's really going on and not looking at it with some kind of point of view, which made this experience even harder, because obviously I was resisting a "spontaneous" surrendering and trying to force it to something else..

Big thanks, it helped a lot :*

someone's picture

I guess I'm on the tough period of my path..

Saturday:

I was very sad: I was invited to a party by my husband's family, and I talked to everybody there, I was watching them and myself, and gradually I became more and more depressed.

I couldn't understand why... I cried at home, and didn't know what's happening to me. But then suddenly I felt, that this sadness was about inability to connect with people. I feel them, but they are covered by protective layers and conditionings and speak out of them, and then I respond accordingly, as if forced to "lie", separating even more between us.

So I found myself beginning to be like that - speaking out of what's polite and what's proper, loosing myself.

For example, while eating at the table, and feeling the food, I was asked about my exams at the university, and I felt I couldn't not reply, so I was forced to say something. I can't smile there, close my eyes and chew as a response. Any of you would understand and be happy for me, maybe, but they can't. And I couldn' stay true to myself no matter what, and gave up to "the game".

So after a while I began to feel hollow, and as if life left my body.

And now I'm afraid to go out to people, while knowing I'll have to and I'll have to overcome my fear and keep to my truth, even if that would mean people will think I'm a lunatic... That's hard! Horrible even to think of for my mind.

Yesterday:

What an interesting synch. In synchronicities forum I wrote: if I keep 'eating unaware', I'll find myself in emergency. That's exactly what happened to me yesterday Biggrin

I made tofu and cashews ricotta cheese, which was so tasty, I ate about two table spoons with pan amasado made by me from hummus and spelt flour. Then avocado, lettuce and broccoli salad with corn and chickpeas sauce. Balagan!

After about one hour I began not to feel so great.. terrible nausea with the taste and smell of tofu everywhere...After four hours - dizziness, numb hands and feet, vertigo and blured vision.

I called a nurse and she sent me to an emergency maybe out of allergy consideration . I felt like I'm going to die, I know it sounds dramatic and funny, but sometimes 'small illnesses' can make feel like that.

In the beginning I felt shaking and panicking, but then, when we were in the car with the wind on my face, I felt bliss, and since then it was with me. ..Later I was lying on the couch in the hospital...and I was looking at the light of the seiling, feeling my body weak and sick, but also an expansion and a bliss.

And then I realized, that I'm not afraid to die.

C'est tout Smile

someone's picture

I found out that one of my 'collegues' at work is doing vipassana - and I felt like asking him about it...

So he talked about the method, meditation, etc.

But only one word made an imprint - impermanence.

Since I heard it, I felt a shift in a way I look at the world, at myself and my states (emotional, physical, etc) - this word somehow made me accept anything that is happening to me, flow through in a very relaxed manner. As if now I shifted to a place of awareness, instead of usually dominant identification with everything going on with me or around.

Of course, it's on and off, but just like a word 'vulnerability' worked for me for surrendering and trusting, the word 'impermanence' works for me for awareness, acceptance and non-identification.

I guess this is kind of a key-word, Chris is talking about in his book...

someone's picture

Two days ago I noticed I breathe differently:

Instead of feeling as if I breath through nose, throat, chest, and so on, usually blocked, with whistling sounds and often struglling to breathe, I felt that I'm breathing through another space in my body...without any effort..

As if something is getting inside the body from up through the crown, flowing down, and then climbing back up , as if the breath shifted backwards, from respiratory organs deeper inside the body..

Now I have different ways of breathing - when I'm struggling or closing up - it's shifting to a 'normal', when I'm relaxing, opening and flowing, it's shifting backwards, to a space between where I'm used to feel the breath and the spine.

It's physicality, but since it's strongly correlated with my inner state, I found it interesting to tell about..

Is it something that happened to anybody here?
Yulia Smile

The Seagull's picture

I completely understand what you are talking about Someone.....many mystics have talked about the power of breath in awakening. Your are feeling prana, chi, universal life energy flowing into your body...most people don't breathe deeply enough....if you breathe deeply, slowly and fully down into your solar plexus you will find you may even get down to only 4 breaths per minute....this has happened so naturally for me...I feel it flowing throughout my body...

There is a fantastic treatise on this topic The Science of Breath by Yogi RAMACHARAKA in 1903

http://www.way2bliss.com/science-of-breath.pdf

You don't only have to be meditating to focus on the breathing, focus on it when you are walking and when you need to come back to centre when in stressful situations...it seems like you are already having success with this...and congratulations, you are well on the way to a new part of your journey....

With blessings,
Seagull

someone's picture

..for the book...

I already said before I have this feeling I learn to do everything again, from the beginning - how to walk, eat, talk, and now breathe...

I'll go put some diapers on - just in case Biggrin

Eleanor's picture

Can't believe you found it online FREE Seagull...i paid good money for my copy, and only last week! lol!

Hey Yulia yes i too find breathing different now i'm conscious of it. Sometimes i have found this bad, but only because just at the point of becoming conscious it can feel un-natural. But when i get past this phase to controlling it then it becomes of real benefit, i.e. when i breath into a certain body part for healing purposes and move my awareness to that body part too, this feels really good.

I guess there is a distinction too between the taking in of air through our lungs and the taking in of energy through the chakras. I feel this too but i guess i'll have to read the book for that.

There is an article on yogic breathing below on a site i've recently found. Faith who wrote the article teaches yoga for trauma survivers. It's a lovely site and it's new so she's keen to get new conversation going there:

http://yoga.harkeystudio.com/69/yoga-understanding-breath/

The Seagull's picture

Hi Elle...I should have pointed out that it was Elle who actually pointed me towards the works of Yogi RAMACHARAKA and for that I'm grateful! I still reckon there's nothing better than a real book to hold in your hands...! I reckon I'll be getting a hardcopy soon myself! Blessings, Seagull

Eleanor's picture

Yes your right and i really should order a real copy of Chris's 5 Gateways book. I think that's why i haven't finished it yet; it's just not the same cwtching up in bed with a laptop!

someone's picture

Hi to all,
After having a very hard year I finally have vacation, and as usually we went to
Eilat to rest.

Last year I had a great fun and came back filled with positivity and optimism. So, naturally, I expected the same this year and was looking forward it, like a child waiting unpatiently for his candy on a stick in a candies shop.

But, as naturally ;), I found myself suffering from insomnia, fatigue, also getting sick and having sharp and high-amplitude moodswings.They are driving me crazy!!! :0

All this is very amusing, but here I have this question all the time - what's going on? I feel like I got to an intensive learning course, bordering with exhausting me to death.

It seems like a lessons are coming in a bundle - tatatatatatatata!! and I can't loose focus for a second.

Here are a few examples:

1. I was looking at my feet nails and enjoyed them looking pink and clean and of a nice shape. A moment after I clumsily broke one of them with my own other foot. I found myself being not able to accept such a 'dirty trick' - it was like NOOOOO!!! NOOOOOO!!! :'0

2. I see clearly that I have this perfect picture how my vacation has to be - all nice, fun and perfect. But what if it's not? And here we go again - NOOOOO!!! NOOOOO!!! :'0

What if I'm tired? What if my husband starts to talk about problems while we're supposed to 'have fun'? What if I look at the mirror and somehow I don't like what I see...get attacks of fear to get old and die.And many many more. It seems like each moment comes a new one. Why can't I accept things as they are - ok, I'm angry now, ok, I'm tensed now, ok, a bird pooped on my shoulder and ruined my so precious Tshirt. All the time I feel I have to give up my wild imagination, my perfect model about how things should be.

But I want to ask - why?! Why do I feel like I'm being bombarded? more than when I'm home.

And even a more important question: how do I know it's not hormons, or just a fatigue, or anything else. How do I know the difference between my body-chemistry malfunction causing me feeling all those swings, or is it BC putting me through a training facility.

I mean how do I know the difference between just mood-awings and something I really need to work with?

Is it important at all? Or no matter what's happening- it's always the same - awareness and full acceptance of whatever coming up, while not identifying and seeing how I open more, surrender more and get expanded more. And then how can I deal with such a frequency of thrills? It's exhausting and seems impossible to deal with.

Thanks,
Yulia

P.S: I feel to say that I realy missed openhand and and..that I love you very much Smile

Trinity's picture

Welcome back yulia :innocent:

It is said that "Expectation is the killer of true experience". So the first thing I find that helps is to throw out any expectations along with the trash Wink

A while back I kept attempting to go on a 'nice, joyous, relaxing, peaceful' break. Each time I did, I got anything but that!!!

The truth is that I needed to clear blocked energy from my system - and what a PERFECT opportunity it was (so 'thought' the universe) to release that energy when I went away from a break. Going away meant I had none of the usual 'responsibilities'. My path was clear to focus on what I REALLY needed to work on. Rather than what I wanted to work on (which was to park my 'stuff' and have a good time).

So as it happened (and much to my dismay), every time I went away, I went into a big process. Eventually (after this happen quite a number of times), I gave up any hope of getting a break. I realised that this had been divinely orchestrated to show me exactly where I was blocked internally. Inevitably, I surrendered into the experience and cleared the energies. I can say that I can now go away for a break and have a fun, enjoyable time.

So it is possible that something similar is happening to you. It is easy to be distracted at home by our every day lives. Take it away: and watch as we really get to focus on our deepest stuff.

It can be exhausting and pushing to the absolute limits of tollerability. But remember that the path is not meant to be easy. Acceptance and surrender are important keys.

With Love
Trinity
x

someone's picture

Hi Trin,
Thanks for reply.. I think after all, the universe decided to make it a little bit easier for me after I told you on it, now I have small 'coffee-breaks' Biggrin

The sync:
Yesterday in the morning I got depressed that the vacation is too short, and even cried: 'I worked so hard this year...boo hoo...only 3 days off..boo hoo..I want another day!!!'.

So me and my husband went to reception to ask for another day, and they said - no place.

So I got it, I accepted it, as if it was told by the universe itself. And my husband pointed a finger to the sky - there's nothing we can do against it.

So I didn't care anymore - to stay or not and felt complete with the way things are.

In the evening we passed near reception and I felt a pull to ask again - and... there is a place! out of sudden
Isn't it wonderful? A nice acceptance exercise, isn't it? Biggrin

Eilat:
The sea here is incredible. The water is blue. I mean blue blue. You get to the water knee-height and there is plenty of fishes of the most exotic colors sweeming next to you, and all the corals there... I see these creatures and all this beauty, and I can't not to feel the presence of the great life-power everywhere. And even the terrible tightness I'm going through now can't ruin it. After sweeming a while the water becomes so deep, it begins to look like a blue abyss ,it's scary but also so peaceful and magnetizing that at some point you don't care to be sucked by it, and you loose all your fear and survival instinct. I experience such a bliss and pure happiness in the water here...I feel I'm blessed to live.

Love,
Yulia

Trinity's picture

So powerful Yulia! A great testimony to how things can unfold for us when we are genuinely and awesomely OK with whatever the universe has in store for us (rain or shine!). In accepting that there is no place left you 'got it'. Precisely because we accept the flow of the universe, you'd removed the blockage and then the world shaped accordingly. :star:

Eilat sounds divine!

With Love
Trin
x

Chris Bourne's picture

Hi Yulia,

Thanks for sharing the story. I love the way you observe what's happening and see the deeper meaning - great not to resist the flow.

Such 'holidays' have happened to myself and Trin frequently. Just when it seems we have a little time put aside to ourselves, everything starts to happen!

I guess it's when we let the foot off the gas peddle that those subtle flows of consciousness get to have the greatest effect!

Anyway, great to have you back Smile

Much love

Chris

someone's picture

I'm not back, I didn't go anywhere Biggrin

I just don't have computer at home in the meantime, and I didn't have time to keep up at work (I was doing experiments, hehe)...

Anyway, it shows me how important it is to have some 'physical' company on the path... by knowing how it is not to have it for a while.

So now I'm stealing a couple of tens of minutes with the computer at my mom's place.

I'm having hard times...Confused to death anf still feeling bombarded, even though I'm not on vacation anymore.

I lost my track - I mean I can't understand what's going on anymore. I can only say I feel like in a jeep ride - fast and bumpy Biggrin dusty and teary;

Sometimes it's so frustrating that it doesn't leave much choice but surrender; and sometimes I manage to see some hints through the swiftly changing landscape.

I'm learning to give up my analytical interpretation, understanding, following up, and feeling in control. It's not easy at all.

Also everything I'm afraid to loose or let go of begins to be too clear to keep me feeling being so cool on the path, but manly feeling of being clueless, helpless, lost and scared.

But no worry, it all is compensated by beginning to hope someone or something is rolling me down the cliff, hoping it has some direction and all this damage is not for nothing... And while thinking so catching myself - and what if it's for nothing? would you still accept all the bruises and keep rolling wherever you're rolled?

Anyway, the only thing I can see clearly is that I find it very important for me to keep in touch, and read the stuff -right now I read the gateways, as if for the first time; and I feel it's time for me to read again "The initiation" by Elisabeth Haich (from ~145 page on)... Somehow it keeps me balanced...Like 'Earth to Yulia, earth to Yulia..." Biggrin

Love you guys, and I hope my comp will be back soon...
Yulia

I found your site today because I was looking for a radical forgiveness forum to get some support. I have been working with radical forgiveness on and off for a couple of years and thought I was doing okay. For the last three months I have been in a situation that gets more bizarre and worse and worse by the day. I see no end in sight. I feel like I have completely lost my way. I feel cut off emotionally -
although I often experience fear - and trust in God and the process is just lip service. I feel like I have lost God. I have tried to start another radical forgiveness worksheet but it feels so surface and I have no faith in what I am doing. Can anyone help me find my way?

Chris Bourne's picture

Hi Soulsong,

Welcome to Openhand, thanks for sharing Smile

I should say firstly we don't offer "Radical Forgiveness" in the sense of the trade-marked organisation. I simply felt to use the term in the article I wrote because it felt appropriate. We have our own path to realisation and healing which we call "Five Gateways".

That said, may I offer a point of view. And before I do, I should say what I offer does not come from mind. It comes from the place where we are at-one. Having said that, I do not offer my views as absolute truth, they are offered for you to explore and perhaps expand a deeper version of your own truth.

My intuition tells me you're dealing with past life karma: that having been embarked on the path of Radical Forgiveness, it feels like you managed to clear a good deal of negative energy from this lifetime within relationships.

However, it is important to realise that key relationships in this lifetime are created as a result of our karma - past life experiences we've had that then create a filter, through which we see and experience many of our current relationships. So we draw key people to us through the universal law of attraction: our consciousness actually manifests them.

The key to processing this karma, from an Openhand perspective, is to fully experience it, to 'soak it in through every pore' until we release attachment to it. Through the experience will be a gift of beingness. So for example, if we're experiencing abandonment, it is to realise that we are at-one with everything and therefore cannot ever be abandoned by that inner pure presence that is "God" - what we call the "Seer" at Openhand.

But to know this, we really have to be tested on it. Otherwise it doesn't become real for us. To be enlightened is to be enlightened by all things - all events and circumstances - including what you're experiencing now.

Picture for example the biblical story of Jesus who supposed cries out from the cross... "Father, why have you abandoned me?" To me, the story is showing that a shadow identity was seeing himself as separate from the all that is. And that shadow had to be 'crucified' - in other words completely confronted with the inner deception. Only then could the karma be dissolved, the shadow identity disappear and an enlightened state returned - "it is accomplished".

I've written about karma in an introductory article on this site which you can read here...
http://www.openhandweb.org/what_is_karma_and_what_is_its_purpose

I've also covered the Journey of Spiritual Evolution (from the Openhand perspective) and where karma fits in at length in my book "Five Gateways". There's much more information and advice for dealing with it if you're interested. You can find out more about the book and buy a copy here... Five Gateways

Much love and best wishes

Chris

someone's picture

Hi Soulsong3 Smile

I think I know what you're talking about.. every time I feel I lost God, I feel as if it's the end of the world. I feel cheated, abandoned and lonely.

You feel like there was something good and then it was rudely and cruelly taken from you.

Naturally, at first I used to begin to 'hunt' Him, try to grasp Him back! at any cost..

But then I feel more and more rejected, as if I'm falling and falling and there's no end to this.

I know it's terrible. It's simply a torment.

I too ask where is God? Where is he if there is such an awful suffering?!

But, there is an explanation.

Because "God is good", despite all that you or I can feel or think..

This is how I came to understand this process of 'loosing God':
1st stage - you come to know a tiny 'piece' of God, you feel Him a little and it's great! You'd like to stay there forever, with this feeling safe, protected, happy and belong.

2nd stage - but you have come to know only a tiny piece, and there is much more. You won't move forward unless you're out of comfort zone. You're invited to go further. In other words, the potential is growing, and this tiny amount of "God" or pure energy is not enough to fill you anymore.

It feels as if God (or energy) is off, as if you were abandoned, but instead it means you are about to discover more.

This intermediate state between stages if experienced as dark, as if the light is off, and is accompanied by such sensations as loss of energy, depression, pessimism, feeling lost, lonely, it seems that the life-force is taken out of your body.

But then you'll see you experience it time after time, and you'll see you're actually climbing up, you'll come to know it better and better each time it happens; Then you'll stop being afraid it comes back, and you'll wait for it, otherwise you'll know you're stuck or lost, or sank in a lie, some kind of a pink dream..

You won't be sucked by all the physical sensations, but you will be able to keep a free space for yourself, then it will be easier and much faster..

So, what I think might be happening, and this is only my 'vision', based on my own experience, is:

** " For the last three months I have been in a situation that gets more bizarre and worse and worse by the day. I see no end in sight."

if the situation is getting worse and worse, then either there is something you're missing, and "it has to speak louder" for you to see something behind all this external mess, or it's just "climbing up the stairs" that feels hard for you and projects onto external world.

** "I feel like I have completely lost my way. I feel cut off emotionally -"

- I think this is how you experience the intermediate state, you can't go through this aware, so you're under temporary anesthesia "during the surgery" (the transformation you have to go through to move forward)

** "although I often experience fear"
it usually accompanies all the rest, clearly why...you don't understand what's going on...

** "I feel like I have lost God"
I don't think you did, you are just ready to find some more of Him

**"I have no faith in what I am doing"
maybe it's time to switch faith on knowing, i.e. feeling Him
Also sometimes we are stuck at some place, some kind of spiritual organisation or method, and we get used to it, then everything we do is coming from habit and looses the initial "fire", the initial inspiration... That's because it's time to move forwards, again. Either change an attitude and stay where you are, or change everything and move to something new.

** Can anyone help me find my way?
~ 2 years ago I asked the same question...

The 'problem' is that everything I wrote here from my experience might not fit your process, your experience. The only person that really can know and help you is yourself Sad

The most important thing is not to give up, keep going, keep talking to Him, ask for help..He will answer. He always does.. But be attentive and open to see the answers, even if they are unbearable for your ego or your mind...

Hope you'll manage to see the light even in your dark place,
because it is there Smile

With love and support,
Yulia

someone's picture

Hi guys,

I wanted to ask why polls don't allow multiple answers? Smile

Chris Bourne's picture

It's just a limitation in the design!

someone's picture

I like the double-meaning Wink

someone's picture

On Saturday we were waken up by a call - one of the guys from the boxing team Dani is training with hanged himself to death.

We went to see his family.

We were there, everybody were crying or shocked.

I cried myself, as I could feel their pain, and touch how desperate and frustrated he was.

But after that I saw these people, united by this tragic experience. I saw the opportunity for them and myself to test ourselves. To stand and look in the eyes of all the pain and hardships we ourselves deal with everyday.

I could see how this situation made me contracted, where I felt identified, made me see the ego-centrism of people and myself, since everybody was focused on what they feel, not able to see the whole picture.

Many times I imagined killing myself. I was seeing my mother and all those people close to me crying. It seemed so sad. I was in melodramatic trip, crying about my own death.

Now I saw exactly how it looked. There was nothing poetical and melodramatic, but it was the reality, as it is. It was beautifully simple and natural.

"Memento mori". Well, here it was. So close, that I couldn't ignore it. Just to find out I'm not terrified by it as I used to be. But I did admit I am attached to my body, as I felt I am afraid to get old and still deny the fact that one day this body will pass away.

Another thing - I was a little confused, whether it's a greatest courage or the greatest cowardice to do such a thing?

I knew he was struggling many years with depression. He took drugs periodically. Life was unbearably "not light" to him. He tried religion, he tried to find himself in boxing.
One day the guy is taking the bandages, and strangling himself while he's standing and can stop it anytime...

I don't know..

And the last thing I was thinking about is responsibility - I felt that everybody there had their contribution to what happened. It was of course not their fault, but still, this interconnectedness and inter-influence was so obvious, that I felt responsible for every word I say to people and for every look I give them, not mentioning what I feel and think.

And two hours later the life just went on, it was not important anymore. Noticing it, I could feel how no matter how huge the things might be happening around, all will be forgotten and lost. It brought me back to the feeling that only internal processes matter, and made me integrate back into myself.

I could see how small I am, and at the same time what opportunities there are in front of me, how big I can be when I'm connected, how huge and astonishing the world is when I make it out of myself, at least for a moment. Yap...

Chris Bourne's picture

Hi Yulia, I'm deeply moved by your sharing. I can feel the sadness at the core of my being and yet feel the reality of it too.

You ask...

    "I was a little confused, whether it's a greatest courage or the greatest cowardice to do such a thing?"

For me there is no question. I have worked with people on the edge of suicide frequently. There is no cowardice (at least not in my observation). Living in this place is extremely difficult. I often feel it's simply because people are so desensitised that they can do it at all!

I watch my children going to school. I see the rubbish that gets pumped into them which they call "food". I see the gadgets, the business and the distraction. I hear the programming that they get inculcated with. If I had to live that way for a day or two, I think I'd probably want to leave this place pretty rapidly!

So I feel deeply for all people who awaken and then find themselves wondering how to go forwards. Or those who apparently are not awake, but know that something is not at all right. They're looking for something but they don't know what. They have the memory of the place of profound peace they came from, buried deep within, but they can't quite access it.

Contemplating taking ones' own life is one thing. Actually taking a step in that direction brings one to the brink of reality - just as you describe. I actually think it takes great courage to bring oneself to this place. I think it actually benefits us all to contemplate deeply what death is about and how we feel about it. And of course, ideally, it's just the contemplation!

If I find myself with someone feeling this, what I tend to do is go deep into the feelings with them. I take them deeper still - I don't cause them to resist their feelings, but to explore them more deeply... "what would it really mean for you? Why do you feel the need to do it? What is it that is bringing you to this point? What do you think you're not able to deal with?". I work to help them realise that suicide is probably not the answer. That no matter how bad it may sometimes seem, there is an inviolable presence which is them beyond it all. I've found each person will have a key - the reason they incarnated in the first place. I look for the key with them. When we find it together, it always brings them back from the brink - at least it has so far - I'm pleased to say!

Chris

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