Hey Trinity,

I love the poll, thanks for putting it out there, it's certainly a question that arose for me when reading "Gateways of light".

I feel I'm within one particulat gateway, but sometimes wonder if I've transitioned the previous one and at other times am aware of experiences that relate to the next gateway. I suspect this is a common experience so felt to share.

Much love and light, Fi

Excellent point! The Five Gateways are a model to help us make sense of our experience. As with all models there are certain limitations.

The Gateways follow the pattern as outlined, although it is very usually whilst we are in one particular Gateway we will be having experiences of another before we have completed that stage.

This is probably why it is very common that there is a tendency for people to over estimate where they are at in the journey of evolution.

When I had my initial awakening I experienced all five gateways at once, although I reintegrated into just having an awakening state whilst embarking upon the journey of walking the path, processing, releasing and unveiling my soul in its fullness.

Like you, I have tended to have insightful experiences of the next gateway before I get there. It's like a practice infusion of consciousness at that level of expansiveness.

With Love
Trin
x

I am glad that you are enjoying the poll.

At my current stage, probably pre-awakening, it's almost impossible to truly comprehend what it is like at higher pathways.

Chris and Trinity, would you mind share which pathways are you currently on? are you already at the resurrection stage?

Thanks

Hi Lei,

In answer to your question, I know that I've completed the Resurrection. I'm through Gateway 5 but it doesn't stop there! There's continual development, evolution and growth. I still feel like an eternal student - and trust I always will!

Chris

I wanted to share my observations of the ego concerning the gateways and spiritual evolution in general.

Sometimes I want to know what's going on with me, because at times experiences can be overwhelming and confusing.

This is when, I find, the pull to know, to figure out where I am will lead me to a place to better know myself and become aware of what's happening to me.

And this is when to read or to talk to someone about others' experiences can help a lot.

And sometimes it's the ego race - 'Wow, we're already in gateway 1' (or 2, 3,...), -it says proudly, or 'We just passed gateway 1!!' (2,3,4,...)

So, I would ask myself two questions:

1. Are you really in Gateway X or are you in no Gateway anymore, stuck in an illusionary progress? It's the danger of reading about someone else's evolution - ego is trying to copycat it, and sometimes people get stuck there for years. I now know to be careful and see only the general guidelines in case I'm lost or not sure.

2. Who's counting? Why is that interesting to me at this specific moment. Does it serve anything to know 'which gateway' I'm in right now?...or which gateway is someone else...

Sometimes the habit to achieve, to set a target, a goal can become invisibly dominant, and to create the "ego vortex",trying to fool me and suck me in,and out of the path. The same about competition - the fact that someone else is already in gateway 4 and I am only in g.3 can trigger the ego and let it rule the party for a while, it will feel as if there is more fuel, as if the spiritual evolution becomes very important...

This is when I watch for the next symptoms:

*tightness
*loss of joy
*a slight feeling something is wrong
*loss of open curiousity and this feeling of not knowing what will happen next
*feeling of hurry
*feeling of 'must do', must walk the path, must be aware, etc
*anxiety about being stuck and not evolving further (I just ask myself: what if I won't go further? how do I feel about it?)
*loss of trust and vulnerability
and so on

General note: I loved Shakti Mhi's definition - the pathless path --> I think this is when I maybe can know I'm in the right direction - when I don't know where my foot will land next

Hey Yulia,

As always you raise some fascinating questions

The Five Gateways Route Map is designed to be a catalyst to spiritual evolution. It can work in many profound and beneficial ways. For example, you've had a couple of coaching sessions with me now and I sense on each, you've had a pretty major shift. At least that's what you've told me. Is that not right?

I've coached and worked with countless numbers of people - many of who have undergone similar realisations and expansions as a direct result of the work. Since uncovering the route-map, what I've discovered is I've been able to quickly see - to diagnose - where someone is at. It happens practically in seconds. Then I'm able to see exactly how and why their lives are being influenced as they are. Then I'm able to 'prescribe' appropriate tools for them to work with. It's been deeply catalytic for those who've had the commitment and courage to apply the tools on a moment-by-moment, day to day basis. People have changed their lives profoundly in a very positive way.

But you are also exactly right. There is a risk that people might get attached to which Gateway they're in; that they may want to use it as some pride based thing about doing well etc. Alternatively, others may go into fear about not doing well enough.

Yet even this is a good thing too! If there is a tendency for someone to do this, then I'd say that tendency existed there in the first place. In which case, if that person is really being honest with themselves, then the route map is again acting as a powerful mirror. It's an invitation to give up attachment to progress or fear of non-progress.

If you remember in my book, I demonstrated my own attachment to achievement in Gateway 4. I too was keen to 'get up the ladder' as quickly as possible'. Until I realised this was just a distortion itself - it's that which helped me pass through Gateway 4.

Finally, many 'leaders' speak of the pathless path. But in my truth, either they are misunderstanding the true nature of the path or those that follow them are.

I agree, there is no path in the sense of knowing where the next footstep will land. But in my truth at least, there is a very definite Journey of Ascension: an inevitable flow into higher vibrational paradigms - that is unless we deny it. And those who have passed before us on this journey to the summit of the spiritual mountain, frequently report similar 'altitudes' on their path. Those who've truly gone for it - and there aren't many - speak of very similar experiences even though each pathway is unique.

Fortunately, to my mind, the time of the gurus is passing. The time has come for us each to find our own way along the path. I know in my truth that Five Gateways is encoded within each and every one of us because it's encoded into the very fabric and nature of the universe. Every Gateway is a Gateway into a new dimension of experience. These are early days, but I believe more and more will discover its profound nature when they truly commit to the path.

With much love

Chris

Hey Chris,
We actually say the same

Pathless path is the one for the 'walker', which would mean the whole idea of being true to yourself on your path - discover each moment what is your path, rather than saying -now I'm supposed to be here and do this and that...

For example - you can read about people's experiences in France - but when you go there, it will be your experience, even though you mught visit the same spots.

I think too often you see people with a V-list, who are going to see places not because it interests them, or because they spontaneously get there, but to mark V on the list of places where they should visit because that's where everybody goes in 'France', and later you can tell your friends that you too were there.

Note:
Maybe I was misunderstood?
I didn't mean to say that gateways map or any other information about someone else's experience or help are 'not good', all I said that sometimes it can generate the copycat, the 'achiever' or the competitor

You are right that even in this case it can serve as a mirror, but unfortunately, I saw people who didn't pay attention for years they are running so fast and struggling so hard... in the wrong direction, exactly because of this distortion. So I consider it pretty dangerous, since the mind is beginning to mimic the 'supposed' experiences. So I thought it might help if there would be information about this kind of distortion, just in case, so when knowing about the existance of it, anyone could spot it faster maybe.

I think needless to say about how much the book, this site and you in person helped me...

Just a small question...after my general impression:

I again will say that openhand approach is working for me, I mean I resonate with it completely.

How I see it (I'll only touch upon it) - first of all, I feel that it goes from the heart, but is processed by mind, so it 'feels', the book is passing through feelings, but is also expressed in a very precise, logical and methodical manner. I think it's a great combination.

The most valuable for me is the freedom. Usually when I read books or articles about spirituality it leaves the feeling of confinement and rigidity. Barely I could feel of it in openhand materials. For me it means you leave an open space.

You are encouraging to discover each individual path, while sharing your own experiences and giving many really helpfull tips and guidelines.

And very important - is what's between the lines, I can strongly feel it. I felt it in your youtube video immediately - it made me go to the site.

So here is the question:

I'm very sensitive to underflows, but maybe it's just me

Sometimes I feel some kind of slight defensiveness... you know... when for example, I posted the 'ego gateways'...

I remember in one of the articles you say you feel that 5 gateways will become the general rootmap...

I saw it before..for example, kabbalists, I mean people who claim to be enlightened (in past and nowadays), say this is the method that it will spread and 'save the world'.

I couldn't not to mark the resemblance

When a method is created or adopted by someone, and he sees it works for him, and then he sees it works for more people - many times it makes him beleive - this is the method! You know, like this is THE truth.

While feeling that it works for me, and trusting that you're talking from 'higher planes', I'd like to hear your explanation - why so many various teachings/techniques are to be THE technique.

My shoot:

Maybe what the kabbalists meant is that times will come that everybody will study kabbalah - in other words, how to become at one with the universe, maybe they didn't mean that specifically this method will be used, since in many sources they say that the method is built for religious people. Thus when they said that everybody will sit and learn, they meant something general.

What do YOU mean when you say that you beleive that time will come and 5 gateways will be the general map? or the openhand approach? And why do I feel this subtle defensiveness? (Is it there at all? )

Yulia

Hi Yulia,

As always you ask penetrating questions - thankyou!

I don't feel defensive. But maybe I could be accused of being slightly over zealous. It's like when you have that 'eureka' moment. You kind of know everyone will see it some day. Maybe there's a part of me that gives a little bit of extra energy to it. Thanks for pointing it out - I'll watch if I contract around the issue next time I express.

Which is here and now....

To me, Five Gateways is the simple expression of a movement which is inevitable. It is the movement into higher dimensions. Five Gateways in this sense is more about the fabric of spiritual evolution. You're still free to make whatever garment out of the fabric you wish. But that's entirely different from making a Christian garment or a Buddhist one for example. I'm not talking about making garments. I'm not talking about creating your pathway for you. I'm simply saying 'here are some building blocks, which in my truth, the path is actually formed from'. Does that make sense?

So do I feel defensive? No. Did I contract? Perhaps. I felt the enthusiasm welling up within. Now I see it. Sometimes people can feel a little overwhelmed by it.

Chris

Hi Chris and Yulia

I hope you don't mind me commenting but it's something that i've felt too and didn't have the courage to say. I admire your courage Yulia! So i'd just like to say here that i too have felt on a few occasions that your response Chris to certain posts on the Five Gateways has been 'defensive' in some way.

I think it happened when i read that you had felt that the Five Gateways was set to become a global standard. How can you know what will happen in the future? Is it constructive to hold such a view? (sorry about these questions if they seem ignorant. After reading the strand on authenticity i have decided to be less ashamed to ask questions from where i'm at...even if it isn't very highly evolved. So Openhand is having lots of positive influences on me too!)

There was also another time when Ben and Lesley and i were discussing something and it seemed that you felt to respond and seemed to be defending something, when i felt that there was no attack that needed defending. I can understand that you need to moderate the content here but i also felt that you didn't see or were blinded to what was being said by your need to defend. This is how i've felt on a few occasions and really don't want it to spoil my enjoyment of Openhand, as it really has been so essential to my unfolding.

I think my doubt came from the feeling that an enlightened person such as yourself should not react defensively to honest questions. I guess i need some clarification on what it means to be enlightened. Do you live constantly from the heart in an expanded state of consciousness? Can you always see straight to the heart of the matter?

I love everything i read on Openhand and i also love your book and believe that it does provide incredible insight to the spiritual path. I think the only time that i have felt doubt has been in the threads which are open to more misunderstanding maybe? In all your articles and your book i would be inclined to agree and feel confident about what you have to say.

I hope that what i've said comes across as constructive and that you can feel where i'm coming from.

With much love
Elle xxx

Hi Elle,

I don't mind you asking whatever you feel to ask (providing it's sensible of course

You ask...

"I think it happened when i read that you had felt that the Five Gateways was set to become a global standard. How can you know what will happen in the future? Is it constructive to hold such a view?

Yes indeed, no one can tell the future. No matter how enlightened. But we can tell what's going on in the present, at least in our own truth. I said in a previous post...

"Five Gateways in this sense is more about the fabric of spiritual evolution. You're still free to make whatever garment out of the fabric you wish. But that's entirely different from making a Christian garment or a Buddhist one for example. I'm not talking about making garments. I'm not talking about creating your pathway for you. I'm simply saying 'here are some building blocks, which in my truth, the path is actually formed from'. Does that make sense?"

So when I said "it's set to become a global standard", in actual fact, what I really mean is that it already is one. It's just the 'building blocks' (of spiritual evolution) haven't been embraced yet. I'm simply calling something, which from my perspective, I see in the overall evolutionary process which is already there and has been there for eons.

Does that help?

Much love

Chris

Hi, Chris,
thanks for reply

If I understood correctly, you too mean something general and not specific when you talk about 'global standard', you just put it in words already in the book and site (or in other words, the universe sent the message through you..)

I don't know how the personality functions for someone who is living in multidimensional reality, and of course I interpret your expression in a way that I can understand, i.e. your enthusiasm as defensiveness maybe.

But I'm glad you said you'll watch it, because it brings some sense of 'lump in a dough' and rejecting a little bit... not enough though to turn me away, you'll have to try harder

Love,
Yulia

Hi Chris:

I'm sure you didn't mean it to come out that way and it was probably a throw-away comment, but you said "I don't mind you asking whatever you feel to ask (providing it's sensible of course)"

of course, the natural follow-on question is....Who decides if a question is stupid?

Now, as someone who has a lot of experience in teaching, mentoring, supervising undergraduate and postgraduate students as well as general coaching and also with two young children...I could judge a lot of what I hear as being a "stupid question".

My philosophy would be best summed up by "There is no stupid question! Except, possibly, a question not asked"...this quote is often attributed to Einstein, but I don't really know if he said that ...but it is very wise.

What do you think Chris?

Also, I think there were one or two other very pertinent questions that Elle asked that deserved an answer...

I would be particularly interested in your response to Elle's statement (not really a question):

"I think my doubt came from the feeling that an enlightened person such as yourself should not react defensively to honest questions."

Do you feel that you act defensively on occasions or is this just a matter of being authentic?...Is utter authenticity always a good thing when we also have to be prescient of others' feelings?

Is it better sometimes to just stay quiet in our own presence rather then becoming sucked into a drama...? Maybe this is what you are attempting to do...

And, with regard to a lot of this stuff, what we are actually talking about is how many "angels there are on the head of a pin"... And the number of "angels will vary for each of us"...since we must find out our own truth...sure the guidelines help, but there are many roads to Jerusalem, or Mecca....even to Glastonbury!

Here is an interesting quote form 14 lessons in Yoga Philosophy, which is highly relevant for everyone involved in such discussions about the number of Angels on pins...

"In these lessons we have not attempted to force upon the student any conception of the truth which did not appeal to him, or which did not harmonize with his own conception. We grant to all the liberty of their own convictions, preferring that they should accept only such of the Yogi teachings as may appeal to them, letting the rest pass by as not being needed just at that time.

We merely state the Yogi’s conception of the matter, as simply and plainly as we are able, that the student may understand the theory – whether or not it appeals to him as truth is a matter with which we have no concern. If it is true, then it is true, no matter what the student may think of it, and his belief or unbelief does not change matters. But, the Yogis do not hold to the idea that anyone is to be punished for unbelief, nor is one to be rewarded for belief – they hold that belief and unbelief are not matters of the will, but of the growth of understanding, therefore it is not consistent with justice to suppose that one is rewarded or punished for belief or unbelief.

The Yogis are the most tolerant of people. They see good, and truth, in all forms of belief, and conceptions of truth, and never blame any for not agreeing with them. They have no set creeds, and do not ask their followers to accept as a matter of course all that they teach. Their advice to students is: “Take what appeals to you, and leave the rest – tomorrow come back and take some of what you have rejected today, and so on, until you receive all we have to give you – do not force yourself to accept unpalatable truths, for when the time comes for you to receive them they will be pleasant to your mental taste – take what you please, and leave what you please – our idea of hospitality does not consist in forcing unpalatable things upon you, insisting that you must eat them to gain our favor, or that you will be punished for not liking them – take your own wherever you find it; but take nothing that is not yours by right of understanding; and fear not that anything that belongs to you may be withheld.” With this understanding we proceed with our lesson – a most important one." Beyond the Border, 14 Lessons in Yogi Philosophy, by Yogi Ramacharaka

My dear old Dad, who was a simple country-man from Somerset probably put it more succinctly...

"Me zon.....doesn't thee believe anythin' thees do hear an' only believe a half of what these dost zee"

translation from the vernacular...

"My son...Don't believe anything you hear and only believe half of what you see"...I would add (as a pen pusher, rather than a spade pusher)....don't believe most of what you read either....the truth is within you.

You're doing a great job Chris....I don't want to sound negative myself... I just state my truth.

Just my thoughts...

With blessings
Seagull

You're welcome to your thoughts Seagull

Chris

Great job Chris...a suitably Zen answer!

More thoughts....

Chris, you provided a other throw-away comment the other day in the free-will vs determinism thread, which I thought was interesting, but did not resonate in any way...about souls not being eternal...at the risk of returning to "angels and pins" again...

You said that souls are not eternal, despite what everyone thinks...you provided no justification for this statement..now I appreciate that you probably feel no need to justify, but I couldn't help but think that this could be rather up-setting to some people who read it.

In an interesting synchronicity, the next thing I read in 14 lessons in yogi phiolosophy was:

"...beyond your plane and beyond mine are plane after plane, connected with our earth, the splendors of which man cannot conceive. And there are likewise many planes around the other planets of our chain – and there are millions of other worlds – and there are chains of universes just as there are chains of planets – and then greater groups of these chains – and so on greater and grander, beyond the power of man to imagine – on and on and on and on, higher and higher to inconceivable heights. An infinity of infinities of worlds are before us. Our world and our planetary chain and our system of suns, and our systems of solar systems, are but as grains of sand on the beach.”

“Then what am I – poor mortal thing – lost among all this inconceivable greatness,” you cried. “You are the most precious thing – a living soul,” replied your guide, “and if you were destroyed the whole system of universes would crumble, for you are as necessary as the greatest part of it – it cannot do without you – you cannot be lost or destroyed – you are part of it all, and are eternal. “And beyond all of this of which you have told me,” you cried, “what is there, and what is the center of it all?” Your guide’s face took on a rapt expression. “THE ABSOLUTE,”

...but of course, the realms that are spoken of are outside of time and space, so the question is can a soul return to the Source before it has completed its evolution in the realms of density and become one with the absolute...I don't know the answer to that, but I do know that my soul is eternal...the synchronicity itself tell me that

And now to fly off into the great blue yonder...

Best wishes to all,

Seagull

Hi Seagull,

Personally I've found on countless occasions on my journey that synchronicity is no proof of anything. All it does is present a mirror and asks, what are you being in relation to that? What do you really feel about that in the depths of your being? Beyond emotion? Sometimes synchronicity would seem to point quite strongly in a certain (opposite) direction exactly to test our real feelings.

I feel no compulsion to change my view on the non-eternal nature of the soul. It is based on direct personal experience. I'm always open for my view to change, but as yet, nothing you've offered to the contrary lands for me.

Best wishes

Chris

Seagull,

"providing it is sensible "

Personally, I took that as a 'tongue in cheek' comment - HENCE the smiley face.

It's interesting that you felt moved to debate the subject in such detail (not to mention that you dramatised it by replacing the word sensible by the word 'stupid').

Trinity

Hi Chris

I guess the question that was really on my mind was weather an enlightened person experiences defensiveness? What is it like to be enlightened? It was really an invitation for you to talk about you.

The implication of this would be about spiritual teachers in general and their ability to lead others along the path to enlightenment. Francis Lucille in the link below talks about the the role of the guru (i.e. I consider you to be our Openhand guru!): "you have to be certain that your guru is established in happiness. It's the first quality that is required is for him to be a nice person, loving, for him to be happy, joyful, cheerful, to have a good sense of humour..., and also you must feel understood by him, you must feel deeply understood". (No mention of defensiveness, ) So you see when i encountered defensiveness (real or not - real for me), these are the issues that came up for me.

The subject starts off differently so it's relevant from about 2mins: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qn_UNh8gs-c

ps when you said about asking 'sensible' questions it did make me feel quite bad. I have always been afraid to ask questions and am trying to be brave enough to start.

With Love
Elle

Hi Elle,

Well the question seems pretty sensible to me

Interestingly I have been initiated in Kriya Yoga. I found it extremely powerful and I was guided when establishing Openhand to integrate some of the breathing techniques into our own practices. We now use them in our courses to catalyse the spiritual path for people - they are very effective.

However, I was strongly guided not to go further into Kriya for the very reason of the seemingly general attitude to 'the guru'. Speaking generally, it seems there is still the tendency to place 'the teacher' on some kind of pedestal and then to worship him (at least that was my direct experience). I find this disempowering for people and counterproductive. I feel we're moving into an age where people are learning to follow their own inner guru and Openhand is definitely given to encourage this.

You quote Francis (a kriya teacher)...

you have to be certain that your guru is established in happiness. It's the first quality that is required is for him to be a nice person, loving, for him to be happy, joyful, cheerful, to have a good sense of humour..., and also you must feel understood by him, you must feel deeply understood

To me, here is another 'issue' with the whole guru approach and actually, to me, a fundamental misunderstanding about what Enlightenment really is. It is the view that Enlightenment is a certain way, that an enlightened person would act this way or that. That 'he' is always happy and joyful etc.

In pure presence, which is the enlightened state, there is no 'this' or 'that' at all. There is no happy or sad or joyful or blissful. Just crystal clear clarity - like there is 'no one in here'. This is the 'source' or the "Seer" as we call it at Openhand.

Now, from the place of the Seer can arise all kinds of feeling, thought and emotion. It happens spontaneously as an expression through the soul. There is total liberation of the soul, so no one is trying to control what is being expressed. Expression simply happens in relation to what is arising. The arising then flows through our consciousness landscape which can then be influenced by the landscape - so right now, my natural beingness is being influenced by your question.

But neither am I being 'owned' by your question, just as I'm not owned by any feeling that arises. I simply don't need to be happy or joyful. There's no one in here to try to make that happen. And conversely, neither is there anyone trying to prevent it from happening. So if happiness arises, that's perfect. If sadness arises, that's perfect too. So there is a watching of these states arising and a complete submergence into them, but without attachment to them nor ownership of or by them.

And in answer to your other question, neither is there defensiveness - who is here to be defended?

This is immense liberation. It means you're free to be completely who you are (or rather what your soul is given to express). It means you can experience love, joy, pain, sorrow in a way that it's impossible to experience prior to that state (an enlightened one). I find this quote from Conversations with God gets it really well...

"Be patient. You are gaining wisdom.
And your joys are now increasingly available without pain.
That too is a very good sign. You are learning to love without pain;
to let go without pain; to create without pain; even cry without pain.
Yes you're even able to have your pain without pain."
Conversations with God 1 Page 158"

What I also find, is that this state is deeply catalytic for those around me. It invites people to be authentic themselves and it pushes buttons within people if they're not being authentic. But if they're truly being honest about their own expression, then they'll take responsibility for it themselves and it is this which can greatly accelerate their unfolding.

Like for example, right now, I experience you projecting your defensiveness onto me (which I'm not receiving by the way). What do I mean by this?...

"Everything I see is a part of me"

One of the most powerful keys to becoming enlightened is to realise you create absolutely EVERYTHING in your landscape (the events, occurrences people etc.) AND THEN to take personal responsibility for that. This includes everything you notice about others. You're simply noticing yourself - your attention is being drawn by your soul to that which you need to resolve within.

If you notice something you admire in someone else, you're actually noticing a gift of your own which is still yet to be realised. And if you notice something in someone else that makes you tight inside for some reason, then you're noticing your own tightness and limitation. Do you see it in your own words? You say you see in me defensiveness but then end your last post with...

"ps when you said about asking 'sensible' questions it did make me feel quite bad. I have always been afraid to ask questions and am trying to be brave enough to start."

So where does your self consciousness - your defensiveness - come from? And can you see you're projecting it into your outer world?

This one change of attitude alone would accelerate the group consciousness beyond measure: taking responsibility for the world we create around ourselves and then taking positive action to find a higher expression.

Chris

I feel like giving some examples I've heard of/ read about:

This story I think is funny... There was a kabbalah teacher, who was enlightened they say ( I think he was by his writings)... So he was in the car with one of his students, who was driving...And then someone tried to cut them, you know, to force them to let him pass on the road before them.. And he said: "Don't let the skunk..."

Or another story - he sent one of his students to buy him cheeze, and when the student asked him what to bring - he said "Bring me the best, the most expensive!"

I also read about an aghorist, who was sitting a prostitute on his thigh and holding an alcoholic drink in his hand, and doing all kinds of wierd for an enlightened person stuff, so that all those who are not determined enough to learn from him will go away, and only those who were seeing him under all those 'masks', and were ready to remove there expectations and prejudice were to become his students.

These examples (stories), I think, demonstrate good enough that external expression can be whatever it might be, enlightened the person or not. But I thought not once, that how anything can be bad or wrong in this world? I it exists, then it has some kind of reason/purpose, that's how i feel, even though me too, many times can't accept many things - violence, murder, cruelty.

I ask myself - who in me feels awful when I'm watching movie or program about animals - like buffalo eaten alive by jackals, for example. How can an animal, which is part of the nature, can do such a terrible thing?

So I don't hink that I'm in a position to even imagine how the absolute is, and how an enlightened person, who knows this absolute, would feel or behave. But there is one thing I feel strongly about it - it wil be nothing like what I'm used to feel, so how can I expect anything at all from an enlightened person? or more important, from myself in the next moment? next month? next year?

I hope it was clear that my question was more about - why the defensiveness, if it is therea t all? and the other question was about why does Chris feel that 5 gateways will be THE standard. The latter was answered, the first was satisfied.

P.s: I'm glad it stirred you people up here a little bit... the mirrors are working great, ah?

Hi Yulia,

Your comment - I find only one word it - priceless!!!

Much love

Chris

Dear Trinity...You're absolutely right and I totally see your point.....I guess I translated 'not-sensible' into 'stupid' sub-consciously, in my own mind, and that says more about my state of consciousness at that time than it does about anything else..best to think and not rush so as to get the wording correct.....to be Authentic (and maybe not to post when rushing for a train, though am not making excuses, just stating a fact/a learning experience).

And the fact that I have now been able to see this through what you said, I really appreciate!

You clearly highlighted a 'blind spot' in me and for that I am grateful! (Most 'blind spots' are 'blindingly obvious' to others often!)

No offence was intended to anyone, least of all Chris, who I respect greatly and who's posts I always find fascinating and even if I don't immediately agree with (or indeed understand ) everything he says, always make me think and feel in my heart...to find my own truth.

I appreciate your compassion and honesty Trinity.

But, I think if we replace 'stupid' with 'not sensible' in my posting above, I still stand by it.

Would you agree that no question is 'not-sensible'?...I think this is an important point to clarify as it would free people up to ask those burning, but seemingly 'non-sensible' questions on these threads.

I certainly had no intention to create any 'drama'...do you think I would I have 'created drama' if I had used Chris' words 'non-sensible rather than the other word?

To reiterate, I have really enjoyed the further discussion here and the discussion about the world and people around us being the mirror of our own consciousness was particularly interesting...also, I agree about synchronicities...it is up to us as individuals to make what we will of them...

A wise friend gave me some good advice the other day too, which is very pertinent and which I am reflecting upon:

"[We] have [the] challenge to step aside, close our mouth and just try to listen, and even (and now the tricky thing starts) even when people start talking about things you think you already have figured out or at least have an idea how it can be – still just listen and reflect. For me this has been and still is a challenge. But I have realized that it is ok (or maybe the best) not to always state my opinion or give people unwanted advise and insights. As you said yourself “we each, in the end, have to reach these realisations for ourselves“...and of course we all have a special gift, which is our personality (including babbling(!), talking, [being] analytical, open-minded etc), so for sure, we should not try to be someone else, just challenge our personality a bit and see what happens inside of us."

With blessings to you all...keep up the good work!

Seagull

Hi Chris,

you say..

Now, from the place of the Seer can arise all kinds of feeling, thought and emotion. It happens spontaneously as an expression through the soul. There is total liberation of the soul, so no one is trying to control what is being expressed. Expression simply happens in relation to what is arising.

This is immense liberation. It means you're free to be completely who you are (or rather what your soul is given to express). It means you can experience love, joy, pain, sorrow in a way that it's impossible to experience prior to that state (an enlightened one).

I can imagine one can experience the feelings of love, joy, pain and sorrow in an enlightened state, but can one still experience emotions like anger and frustration etc in such a state? It seems quite unlikely as there is no one to identify with. What makes one emotion possible and the other not?

I've found this thread of discussion quite enlightening, thank you for all your participation.

Lei

'Sensible' in the sense that it was used, I think was used with a element of playfulness. So it is hard for me to engage with it seriously.

However, I will say that it's up to each of us to discern what is authentic and 'right'. It is part of the spiritual journey to find courage to step beyond comfort zone and express as we feel appropriate.

If there is something inappropriate or 'off-topic' for the Openhand site, then I am sure there is somewhere else in the world that it would be welcomed instead. In this respect, this is a website to facilitate the journey of spiritual awakening through to ascension, specifically through the Openhand Approach as well as understanding the Five Gateways route map.

Another word for sensible might be 'appropriate'.

And yes there is also a time to discern whether one's opinion/advice/insight is to be shared or not. Best not to determine this one by any perceived outcome but rather the authentic up welling from the soul.

Trinity
x

Hi Lei,

I have to say you ask some really great questions - what is it that makes you think you're only 'pre-awakened' as you said in a previous post?

You ask...

"I can imagine one can experience the feelings of love, joy, pain and sorrow in an enlightened state, but can one still experience emotions like anger and frustration etc in such a state?"

From my perspective on reality and the true nature of the soul, EVERY action has at it's deepest core, truth. So even in anger and frustration there is truth, but of course, as they are, they do not demonstrate an enlightened state.

So take anger. It could be that we're experiencing a powerful Ray 1 Warrior energy to initiate something and get something done (take a look at... Seven Rays of Divine Impulse). This may be entirely authentic. However, as the soul flows through the bodymind, it may get diverted into a fixed neural pathway in the brain.

A past loop of conditioned behavioural activity now fires up and our bodymind takes over. We activate a whole host of interconnected judgments, thoughts, mental imagery and connected emotional responses - we're now acting through a filter and quite lost in that filter. As a being, we're now reacting to programming rather than responding from truth.

This is what is commonly known as an 'attachment' leading to the development of a 'distortion' (in the brain). So anger demonstrates attachment to Right Outcome, or resistance when Right Outcome doesn't happen.

In an enlightened state, we may be given to do something that is aligned with the co-creative flow (Right Action) but this is nevertheless thwarted. Even though Right Outcome doesn't happen, there is no attachment and therefore no anger. The Ray 1 warrior energy might naturally dissolve or be channeled into another activity.

Now perhaps the next question to ask might be, how to get to the enlightened state so we're coming from absolute authenticity the whole time? Here at Openhand we've developed what we believe to be a powerful approach to this. It's about allowing reactions to happen but watching them as they do so. Then recognising what negative distortion is taking place but then holding an open space for the truth to arise of it's own accord instead.

If we actually interrupt a conditional neural pathway WHILST IT IS ACTIVATING, then we've found this is the most powerful way to dissolve it. You can read about the approach here... Openhand Approach It's something we 'teach' and help integrate on our Way of the Heart course

Best wishes

Chris

Well, Trinity......

So, if I understand this correctly....you said:

"If there is something inappropriate or 'off-topic' for the Openhand site, then I am sure there is somewhere else in the world that it would be welcomed instead."...

...well, I get the message I am being given......

But, I come back to the same question then.....

Who decides what is 'appropriate' for the Openhand site?

Is the answer you and Chris and only you and Chris?

In which case, this seems like you are implying that the students must ask no questions in class if it is deemed by the teachers that a particular question is inappropriate.....and my argument is that, within the context of spiritual evolution, why would certain questions be inappropriate?

Secondly, your other point....:

"this is a website to facilitate the journey of spiritual awakening through to ascension, specifically through the Openhand Approach as well as understanding the Five Gateways route map."

I appreciate that, but I'm sorry again, but is it wrong to question this approach?....there are many, many approaches to spiritual evolution. They existed before Openhand and they will exist way beyond Openhand.....and, in my opinion, seekers should have the opportunity to follow many paths...and should be facilitated in this by posts that express an alternative viewpoint and/or provide links to other teachings.

I will cut to the chase now, if that is the case, and you are intent on controlling all content on the forums on this site and only encouraging people who agree with your view of things to contribute then you are in the business of indoctrination and your approach is designed to create a cult...intuitively, I have been feeling this for sometime!

Quite frankly, that is scary.....if this is not what you intend, then perhaps you should be a little more astute in being the observers of your own actions....

If that is indeed the case and you are in the business of creating an Openhand cult and I am seriously beginning to believe that is is...then I, for one, want no part of it....

I have enjoyed my time here, I have learnt a lot and I have shared this space with some great souls.

My best wishes to you all....

But, this will be the last Openhand posting from me..

I am sure you'll be glad to see the back of me.

For anyone who's interested in anything I have ever had to say, please check out my blog at http://theseagullspeaks.blogspot.com

I felt it necessary to post this, rather then just shuffling off as it is important that other people on here are given the opportunity to think about all of this..and decide if they see anything in what I say or not....I hope that I am wrong...

In love and light and Goodbye,

Seagull

...what drama they will say...
...I can assure you I have stated 'my truth' calmly and quietly.

Hi Chris,

Thanks for the great response again!

what is it that makes you think you're only 'pre-awakened' as you said in a previous post?

I actually just answered that question in the soul's journey thread. The reason I thought I'm pre-awakened is that I've never had a profound awakening experience. Although I may not have had the experience, my mind can sometimes work in very abstract ways and I can get glimpses of how it's like in my imaginations. Sometimes getting the answers will help me fitting the pieces together in my head and forming new neural pathways, and thus lead me closer to having the actual experience!

with love,

Lei

Hi Seagull,

Since you intend this as your last post and the deliberation began with a question about the meaning of a word in a post of mine, please allow me to respond to your outpouring above.

Firstly, this site is not about getting into some intellectual debate about the particular meaning of one word. Even now, I don't feel to debate the meaning - or potential judgment - in the word 'sensible' which seemed to spark all this off. To me, it seemed you were getting rather 'in the head' about it all and heading off down some blind alley way. I simply felt not to give any energy to it. Having said that, you'll note we didn't moderate the post and take it down, so if anyone else had wanted to respond, they'd have been free to do so.

For you and anyone else reading this, perhaps it might be beneficial to understand a little about what Openhand is and it's purpose. We're a small team of people who are totally dedicated to what we feel to be our divine purpose: that is to bring the message of the Five Gateways Route Map and our approach into the group consciousness.

We have limited resources and time. We are given to focus our energies carefully and where possible, to resist the possibility for the message to be diluted. That's not at all to say we don't welcome a 'sensible' inquiry into what we're doing. We have an open forum for that and people are welcome to post 'sensible' questions. By sensible, I mean what feels right to us (because quite simply, it is our site). For example, if someone was simply offering judgment or profanity and not at all engaging in the free spirit of open inquiry, as sometimes happens, then we'd moderate the postings out. And as I said, just because someone posts a question as you did, that doesn't necessarily mean we feel obliged to answer it.

Finaly I find it absolutely fascinating that you would compare Openhand to a cult. Are you serious? Are you having a gag? Do you know, if you really feel that way about us, I'd advise you fly very quickly in the opposite direction!

Lovingly yours

Chris

Hi Seagull,

I think you might have misinterpreted Trinity's comment somewhat.

To me the reason to moderate comments here is simply a way to prevent them from diluting the clarity of the openhand approach. Things have to be worked within a structure or framework for it to be effective, although the framework and structure can change and evolve over time. There have to be a certain number of keys on a piano, if the keys were infinite no music would be created on it. But of course, there can still be infinite musical instruments artists create music from.

In fact, I'm so grateful to have found openhand only a short while ago, it's such an important missing piece to my puzzle. Had the content here been very diluted I might have not been able to get the message so easily.

with love,

Lei

Thanks for the kind words of support Lei. Clearly you understand well our approach and yearning to focus on our destiny. We encourage that in all awakening souls.

Much love

Chris

Hi Seagull,

First of all let me say that I would regret it if you stopped participating in the forum because I have enjoyed your posts and our exchanges.

My sense is that the fact that that one word "sensible" turned into such a treadmine for you might have to do with your academic background and profession. - I am kind of an academic, too, and find that there is a lot of (overt or not so overt) pressure of not appearing stupid or ignorant. So, may be, you wanted this space to be one where you were free of such demands on you (check it out for yourself, this is just an idea).

As far as Chris' attitude towards Openhand goes - saying that it will become a 'global standard' one of these days; this is an attitude that reminds me very much of the kind of passion that my ex-teacher brought into his work, too. - He was also a - very powerful - Ray 1 person and was sooo convinced of his approach (I have been training with and working for him - as an interpreter - for about eight years and have seen a lot during that time). My conclusion about the whole thing was that this might be divinely given to enable teachers to bring the one-pointedness and totality to the work that is required for them to be effective.

Do you have any idea what it takes to do this job in the way Chris (and not so many others) are doing it? All the things that people project onto you, all the really distorted, or yes, stupid (from a more enlightened perspective) ideas that people have, the questions they come up with? I have to say I personally wouldn't have had the patience to answer some of the questions that Chris has responded to. - Sometimes I think: Does he get enough sleep?

Can't you just, for your own sake, take this statement with a grain of salt? Is it really so relevant whether you believe this will come true or not?

As far as the cult thing goes: over the years I have seen that people in general (though mainly the ones not involved in the spiritual scene)have a huge fear of being 'sucked' into some cult. - When I talked about the seminars I was doing that question came up a lot. But, for example, I have been to Pune (the Osho commune) at least half a dozen times, once for 6 months even, and never felt drawn to take Sannyas so I never did and nobody ever put any pressure on me in that respect. - And it was really difficult to get in in the first place (apart from having to pay money, you had to get all kinds of IDs, clothes etc.). For me this fear is along the same lines as the fear of irrationality (madness), losing control etc. Yes, an unstable personality might be drawn into some weird cult, but do you truly and honestly Openhand believe to be one?

- From what I understand, you haven't attended any seminars yet. Well, I have and I am a supercritical person but I didn't see any gap between the way Chris and Trin present themselves on the website and the way they are. They really walk their talk 100%. They give very personal attention to everyone which is an incredible luxury - and all that at a very affordable price. How many teachers do you find doing that? And then doing really transformative work which always brings up a lot of darkness, too. It's so much easier to work with the higher chakras only and give people a good feeling about themselves. However, it does not bring about transformation and that is what we really need right now. I personally wouldn't settle for anything less!

Lots of Love,
Tasneem

It's so sad, when people talk in different languages and can't understand each other. That's what is happening when people give too much attention to external expressions, including words, instead of seeing their own reflection in any situation.

I think that maybe sometimes you feel it's time for you to move on, but you're not sure, then you are looking for a proof, an excuse for yourself why to leave something behind and shift to something else. Maybe that's what happened here.

But there is no excuse needed.

I beleive that anyone here can stop participating at any moment without explaining anything to anybody, without needing to give an excuse...And then come back again, without telling where he's been and why he was away...

Lack of self-esteem or self-confidence, need of aknowledgment, strict rules how things should be, and hyperactivated mind are tough buttons to push, especially with people used to be treated with respect and aknowledgment (they worked hard to get it), so I guess, without paying attention, it was kind of 'low blow'. Maybe it was just too big to deal with.

But whatever it was, and things don't just happen for no reason; I believe that we all can read between the lines and see what all this really meant to 'say'. I see a great lesson here for me, how ego can blind you, that much you are afraid to look inside yourself, that you start to point a blaming finger outside. It can happen to any of us.

And the most important, if he changes his mind some day, or just feels like commenting or expressing himself any time, I beleive he can feel free to do so. I personally don't judge or critisize Seagull.

I don't think that anybody here should take it personally, it's an individual process, it's his path, his choices and his destiny. I think that maybe it was time for him to move on someplace else, even if it is just for one day He just didn't get it straight and rationalized it in a little clumsy way. It happens to me too sometimes.

So on my part, nothing happened here. And it might be the last flight of old Seagull, but already in 1 minute the old Seagull turns to a new Seagull, and I send my love to him wherever he is, here or someplace else.

Good luck, bro

How beautiful - thankyou for sharing your thoughts.

Dear Seagull and Eleanor,

I must confess to a wry smile being present as I have just caught up with the above and have seen how it unfolded.

When I originally saw the "sensible question" tag line it stuck out a mile and I thought, that is probably going to provoke a response for someone. It immediately reminded me of what some might call a "throw away line" (I don't think so) that Chris once uttered to me. He said, "Any fool can be uncomfortable" I had quite a hissy fit over it, for my ego definitely didn't like my perception that I was being called a fool. Now I didn't see anything foolish in my actions, I was just making a perfectly valid choice, but boy did that one line show up my attachment to what someone else might think of me. Chris or anyone else could say the same thing now, and it wouldn't resonate with me, so I'd let it pass, or reply without any over egging that it was what I felt to do.

So Eleanor, as someone who has often been reticent to question or speak myself, and who has had a bit longer in the Openhand university of self realisation than you have, I would venture to suggest that when you've experienced a few more challenges to your resolution to ask questions, your soul will be free in any circumstances to ask questions as you will have uncovered and let go of even more layers of your "stuff" around that so there is nothing left inside to hold you back. Seeing that line would not shake your foundations so to speak, that it apparently did, shows there is more unfolding to be done here. (Well done, keep it up!) This is what really makes the Openhand Approach stand out. There is no avoiding the uncomfortable bits, we don't say everything is fluffy and lovely, we say the only way to self realisation is through the thick and the thin of the all of it. It's been my experience that the more times I've felt "knocked back" the more deeply I've felt my truth and the more I've grown to express it freely. And yet still be on the lookout for distortions within it. (Very important).

I also think I know what you are alluding to quite a few posts back where you talk about a joint discussion you, me and Ben were having and you said something like Chris Jumped in defensively. I'd be happy to give you a perspective on that too if you're interested.

And dearest Seagull, I would say you perhaps just fell into a trap I myself have fallen into, where your urgency to correct someone else blinds you to your own possible inner explorations that are being invited. Where you feel a hot button and express your truth in such an over egged way, that if you were really engaged in self realisation, it would be obvious to you that you are running a distortion.

Maybe you are such a good and passionate teacher that you want all your students to be free to ask any question and never feel small in the process. A noble state of affairs. Maybe you still harbour attachment to early experiences of your own when asking questions, maybe you are now a zealot in preaching your perspective on "no such thing as a stupid question?" Whatever, the amount of energy that was set off in you by the line ".... sensible question" should be an immediate flag to examine your truth and your motivations..... if you are actively engaged in self realisation, not just intellectual debate.

To flounce off into the sky in such a dramatic way speaks of being unable to accommodate any challenge to your personal dogma, curiously the very thing you seem to be complaining about on this site.

I agree there are many approaches to spiritual evolution, and this site is devoted to the free exploration of the Openhand Approach. It also contains many references to many spiritual insights from many different spiritual teachers. For me the Openhand Approach works, but I don't have a need for it to work for anyone else.

Best wishes to all exploring their truth,
Lesley x

I just wanted to say a heartfelt "thanks" for your kind words of support and encouragement. Although we don't do this work to receive thanks, when another soul appreciates what we do, it builds a positive feedback loop which tends to lift us all.

So thankyou!

Chris

Hi Guys.

While i think it's nice to build a positive feedback loop i also feel it that can create something very biased and one sided. So here's my perspective on my experiences at Openhand.

So, I'm a little disappointed to say that i've still not received an open and honest answer to my open and honest questions. I feel like a real politician Chris you have evading and deflecting from the real questions i've been asking. All i wanted is for you to have talked openly and honestly about the defensiveness that comes across. I wanted you to talk about your enlightenment. Do you have to work to maintain it? Are you not vulnerable to the workings of the mind as well as us? All you said on the subject was that you will "watch it". Can you elaborate, watch what? Your silence on the subject makes me feel that you have something to hide.

I'm going be really honest here again in order that i stay true to my feelings. If i don't express them as they are then i'll never make any progress. So another thing i feel is that your approach has not made me feel empowered. It makes me feel cut off from reality. I have trouble talking to people in the working day world about it, and so do others on the site. It only makes sense when you engage with other people on Openhand. I feel it's a closed system that is not in harmony with what already exists. Isn't this the real basis basis for madness. Surely any approach to life should fully engage with the reality that already exists.

Another thing i feel is that there is an unhealthy need to push Openhand. An urgency to engage fully in the spiritual world that you have created. You've written your book Chris now surely you should just let it go, maybe write another one. Yes Openhand is doing a good job at helping beginners on the path gain an introduction to spirituality, but you are just one of the many that are out there. I for one would like to make sure that i sample more than just one approach before i decide what is quality advice and who i feel is the right person to lead me through such an important process. I don't think it is a good idea not to have a teacher. There is so much that can one can miss out on or get wrong. My point here again is that it is the quality of mind of the teacher that the student him/herself will imbibe. As this is an internet forum all i have to go on for a character reference is how you come across. I can't afford to pay for seminars or retreats.

There is one more issue and that is that I don't feel that there is room here for honest debate. The unwritten rule seems to be I teach: you listen. If you don't agree then you are free to go elsewhere. My way or the highway, lol!

Everything i've expressed here comes honestly from my heart. I don't feel that i'm criticising, just observing. Observing that these are issues that everyone on The Path must consider. I feel strongly that people should practice what they preach.

Just one last thing and that is to ask what you teach about the self. In other approaches it seems to be the first principle to teach the true nature of the self in order to empower the student before any other realisation can begin. There is a chapter from Yogi Ramacharaka's book, "A series of lessons in Raja Yoga". I can't say how this relates to your approach on an intellectual level but i did feel on reading it that it reminded me a lot of the Openhand approach:

The keynote of this lesson will be "The Oneness of All," and all of its teachings will be directed to awakening
a realization in consciousness of that great truth. But we wish to impress upon the mind of the Candidate that
we are not teaching him that he is the Absolute. We are not teaching the "I Am God" belief, which we
consider to be erroneous and misleading, and a perversion of the original Yogi teachings. This false teaching
has taken possession of many of the Hindu teachers and people, and with its accompanying teaching of
"Maya" or the complete illusion or non-existence of the Universe, has reduced millions of people to a passive,
negative mental condition which undoubtedly is retarding their progress. Not only in India is this true, but the
same facts may be observed among the pupils of the Western teachers who have embraced this negative side
of the Oriental Philosophy. Such people confound the "Absolute" and "Relative" aspects of the One, and,
being unable to reconcile the facts of Life and the Universe with their theories of "I Am God," they are driven
to the desperate expedient of boldly denying the Universe, and declaring it to be all "an illusion" or "Maya."
You will have no trouble in distinguishing the pupils of the teachers holding this view. They will be found to
exhibit the most negative mental condition--a natural result of absorbing the constant suggestion of
"nothingness"--the gospel of negation. In marked contrast to the mental condition of the students, however,
will be observed the mental attitude of the teachers, who are almost uniformly examples of vital, positive,
mental force, capable of hurling their teaching into the minds of the pupils--of driving in their statements by
the force of an awakened Will. The teacher, as a rule, has awakened to a sense of the "I" consciousness, and
really develops the same by his "I Am God" attitude, because by holding this mental attitude he is enabled to
throw off the influence of the sheaths of the lower mental principles, and the light of the Self shows forth
fiercely and strongly, sometimes to such an extent that it fairly scorches the mentality of the less advanced
pupil. But, notwithstanding this awakened "I" consciousness, the teacher is handicapped by his intellectual
misconception and befogging metaphysics, and is unable to impart the "I" consciousness to his pupils, and,
instead of raising them up to shine with equal splendor with himself, he really forces them into a shadow by
reason of his teachings.
Our students, of course, will understand that the above is not written in the spirit of carping criticism or
fault-finding. We hold no such mental attitude, and indeed could not if we remain true to our conception of
Truth. We are mentioning these matters simply that the student may avoid this "I Am God" pitfall which
awaits the Candidate just as he has well started on the Path. It would not be such a serious matter if it were
merely a question of faulty metaphysics, for that would straighten itself out in time. But it is far more serious
than this, for the teaching inevitably leads to the accompanying teaching that all is Illusion or Maya, and that
Life is but a dream--a false thing--a lie--a nightmare; that the journey along the Path is but an illusion; that
everything is "nothing"; that there is no soul; that You are God in disguise, and that He is fooling Himself in
making believe that He is You; that Life is but a Divine masquerade or sleight-of-hand performance; that You
are God, but that You (God) are fooling Yourself (God) in order to amuse Yourself (God). Is not this horrible?
And yet it shows to what lengths the human mind will go before it will part with some pet theory of
metaphysics with which it has been hypnotized. Do you think that we have overdrawn the picture? Then read
some of the teachings of these schools of the Oriental Philosophy, or listen to some of the more radical of the
Western teachers preaching this philosophy. The majority of the latter lack the courage of the Hindu teachers
in carrying their theories to a logical conclusion, and, consequently they veil their teachings with metaphysical
subtlety. But a few of them are more courageous, and come out into the open and preach their doctrine in full.
Some of the modern Western teachers of this philosophy explain matters by saying that "God is masquerading
as different forms of life, including Man, in order that he may gain the experience resulting therefrom, for
although He has Infinite and Absolute Wisdom and Knowledge, he lacks the experience that comes only from
actually living the life of the lowly forms, and therefore He descend thus in order to gain the needed
experience." Can you imagine the Absolute, possessed of all possible Knowledge and Wisdom, feeling the
need of such petty "experience," and living the life of the lowly forms (including Man) in order "to gain
experience?" To what Depths do these vain theories of Man drive us? Another leading Western teacher, whohas absorbed the teaching of certain branches of the Oriental Philosophy, and who possesses the courage of
his convictions, boldly announces that "You, yourself, are the totality of being, and with your mind alone
create, preserve and destroy the universe, which is your own mental product." And again the last mentioned
teacher states: "the entire universe is a bagatelle illustration of your own creative power, which you are now
exhibiting for your own inspection." "By their fruits shall you know them," is a safe rule to apply to all
teachings. The philosophy that teaches that the Universe is an illusion perpetrated by you (God) to amuse,
entertain or fool yourself (God), can have but one result, and that is the conclusion that "everything is
nothing," and all that is necessary to do is to sit down, fold your hands and enjoy the Divine exhibition of
legerdemain that you are performing for your own entertainment, and then, when the show is over, return to
your state of conscious Godhood and recall with smiles the pleasant memories of the "conjure show" that you
created to fool yourself with during several billions of ages. That is what it amounts to, and the result is that
those accepting this philosophy thrust upon them by forceful teachers, and knowing in their hearts that they
are not God, but absorbing the suggestions of "nothingness," are driven into a state of mental apathy and
negativeness, the soul sinking into a stupor from which it may not be roused for a long period of time.
We wish you to avoid confounding our teaching with this just mentioned. We wish to teach you that You are a
real Being--not God Himself, but a manifestation of Him who is the Absolute. You are a Child of the
Absolute, if you prefer the term, possessed of the Divine Heritage, and whose mission it is to unfold qualities
which are your inheritances from your Parent. Do not make the great mistake of confounding the Relative
with the Absolute. Avoid this pitfall into which so many have fallen. Do not allow yourself to fall into the
"Slough of Despond," and wallow in the mud of "nothingness," and to see no reality except in the person of
some forceful teacher who takes the place of the Absolute in your mind. But raise your head and assert your
Divine Parentage, and your Heritage from the Absolute, and step out boldly on the Path, asserting the "I."

Yours, in the spirit of objective debate,
Elle xxx

Hi Elle, Seagul et al.
I think its great you feel you can share and express yourself on the site. It feels an important forum for people to learn and share openly. Presumably you’re watching the tightness and energy that’s coming up for you around this as well?

I felt to share my perspective on the situation. Your post came across quite forcefully, pretty challenging really. However in some ways I can understand where you're coming from to a certain extent. For one thing you felt you didn't have your original questions fully answered and felt they should have been. Perhaps it just wasn't the right time?
In regards the main subject you addressed though - Chris brings his message through very strongly with a passion that is quite compelling (and I feel its authentic). It can come across a little like this is THE truth, and not just HIS view. But are you open to the POSSIBILITY that in some ways it could be aligned with your truth too?! (or at least potentially a part of your reality)

To be honest I think it’d be hard to bring across the message authentically if he didn’t feel it fully and express with great passion, so it is merely an expression of that. I think it’s a delicate balance to express that with such conviction and not sound overbearing. However I feel he does generally hold this balance extremely well, and have often noticed (a lot of the time in fact) how clear he is to point out that what he shares is his truth, his way of seeing the world and we each have our own truth, so he could be wrong. I find that extremely valuable. My experiences with Chris have shown me that he is one of the most authentic and dedicated people I’ve ever met. He very much ‘walks his talk’ and shares a huge amount with others. As Tasneem suggests. He’s also very ‘down to earth’, and comes across that he’s continually unfolding finer ways of expressing and being. and generally I think the commitment and authenticity comes through powerfully on the website.

I think Tasneem sums it up beautifully really. It feels like people have different gifts and some teachers for example may be given to bring across their message with great dedication and purpose and I guess this could be misread as trying to exert authority for example. In some cases the message might even arise with slight distortion attached (I don't feel it does in this case). And also, just because someone expresses what they feel forcefully or powerfully certainly doesn’t make them right. It doesn’t necessarily make them wrong either. I feel that the evolutionary process doesn’t stop with enlightenment either (as I once believed), so it seems that even enlightened teachers are still learning and implicitly can still make ‘mistakes’, although learning experiences might be more appropriate a word.

As a different example of someone expressing their truth - on reading the quote you posted it seemed to me that perhaps there was a slight distortion in it. I hasten to add this is my view/interpretation! In some ways the initial implication from the passage is that some are better than others. It also implied that essentially that there is something that ‘God’ (or Tao/Universe etc) isn’t – namely ’It’ is separate from Its creations. Which in my view kind of negates the idea of the interconnectedness of the Universe, and rather just enhances a heirachical separate and ultimately disempowered system. Which may or may not be true, but is not something I resonate with.
It feels to me that there is some truth underlying some of it - in that we are/can realise ourselves as both individuals AND Divine absoluteness. The unique expression and exploration as individuals feels authentic; Yet without a view to our interconnection and Beingness beyond that its only a part of the picture.
That’s my view though, I’m not expecting you to necessarily agree!
Have you looked on wikipedia for ‘ramachara’ though – interesting stuff. I wonder why the author felt write under a pseudenom to start with!

I can see this thread has been pushing quite a few buttons (and maybe continues too ). I feel its valuable that this topic has come up partly because of that, its obviously quite a powerful one. It feels like open-minded/hearted debate and challenges are great and appropriate in helping people discover their own answers to questions raised. It feel s to me that this site is a great forum for that. It also seems that in this discussion there may be some questions around what is completely authentic expression, and looking at whether attachments and distortion are arising too, around what is expressed and how and what’s being presented. Yet that’s not meant to be judgmental - I admit I could be seeing it through my own filters anyway! Either way it seems like its worthwhile to take a look at the tightness and energy that’s arising around it (for ALL involved) and go deeply into exploring that – if you feel to.

trusting

It was interesting for me to see the ironical side of the citation. It goes like - we don't intend to critisize, it's not our way, but..and here the critisizing begins

I see it many times, and fell to this trap myself - I don't intend to influence your opinion, but eating sugar is bad!!

Just another example of what an enlightended or not enlightened sources can do with words - not much. Words are for dual world, I guess, not for the absolute expression.

I'll share my experiences with 'questions-answers':

1. Sometimes, after posting a comment or a question, I was feeling some kind of a need to see a response, or answer. This is when I knew, that my ego is clinging, is trying to grasp something. It's a great time to look for distortion and attachement behind it - like 'I think it was a great comment, and in my imaginary perfect world it should interest everybody'.

This is absurd, I know, but in past I was going mad if the bus wasn't coming in time to the station, if there was a line in a shop when I was hungry and/or in a hurry, when people didn't behave or feel the way I thought they should, etc etc. I just couldn't accept it, I took it all personally :'0

2. It is very confusing sometimes to see a difference between emotions and feelings, between distortion and authentic expression. People say - "I realy feel that..."
as if it's a fine excuse to do, say or ask whatever they want, but it doesn't mean it's authentic. I catch myself very often manipulating with this one, but I learned to spot it fast.

3. I beleive that any question can be asked anywhere and anyhow, and it will be answered. I mean, the questions can be as well asked in a diary, or loud to myself, and if I really, authentically, ask this question, it is always answered. By a bird, person,a broom or maybe suddenly it's in my head. It's not Chris who is really answering, he's just one of the channels, and there can be infinite number of possibilities to get the answer.

4.There's a difference between asking and demanding, and I learned hard way, that the universe rarely responses to demanding. It was a hard thing for me to accept
I mean demanding in a manner of trying to control, manipulate or force. There is though another way to demand - like the 'show me!' - an open one, when you are opening like an empty bowl to receive a guidance (or an answer )

Hope it helps

Hi Ben,

Nice to hear from you. Thanks, for your reply. I always try to watch my thoughts/emotions, although it's difficult to always understand them, and certainly i don't understand a lot of the above on an intellectual level. I just really felt a strong need to express my emotions, to go into them and let them go. I'm sorry if they came out forcefully. I have many lessons to learn from all this i feel. I think it's gonna take a while for me to fully understand everything. I do however feel much better that i've got things off my chest! I feel i've been authentic and had the courage to say what i feel.

With Love
Elle

Hi Elle,

It's great that you feel you have the freedom here to express yourself (maybe we're not being so defensive after all ). But are you aware that your expression comes across as offensive?

Are you able to see how out of proportion your reaction is to what I'm accused of doing or not doing? If you are able to see that, and it would seem that the other responses to your post support that, then the invitation would be to explore where the reaction might have come from.

This is the real key to true authenticity. To express ourselves yes, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, look into the outer mirror (in this case the responses happening on the website) and ask, how do I really feel about that? Why do I think I might have been behaving that way? Has it come from my childhood? A resentment to some male figure for example? Or alternatively lack of loving attention?

So now I would suggest Elle, that if you're interested in finding your true authenticity in all of this, to look at how you're now feeling and why?

With much love and very best wishes

Chris
PS - if you look at the Enlightenment section under 'resources', you'll see I wrote an article a while back called... What does Enlightenment Feel Like

Dear Elle.

This is my perspective having walked with Openhand since the early days.

This website is about the spiritual evolutionary process as seen from an Openhand perspective and puts forward a very clear route map for the enlightenment and ascension of any human being, called the Five Gateways. Answers from the core team are going to be from an Openhand perspective, as it's their means of communicating in a live and up to date way.

There is no guru, there never will be.

There are two people (Chris and Trinity) who live very simply, appreciating every blade of grass on Mother earth, and selflessly give many hours a day to the running of this website, funding its existence from the proceeds of the personalised courses they run for small groups of people. They never cease in their dedication to reaching ever more pure expressions of their individual truths. They and a handful of people who assist them, do this work because they believe it to be important to humanity to offer the message. It is simply put out there, take it or leave it as you will. No-one is here to persuade you of anything. Over and over you will find the following sentiments expressed, "believe nothing just because someone else has said it, always test for yourself what is true for you". They will often offer their current perspectives on postings, whether that posting is a question or a statement. This isn't to superimpose their views on yours, (I'll say that again), This isn't to superimpose their views on yours, it merely offers their truth on their website, which you are free to make of what you will, and is a way of showing many facets of the work to many people in a multitude of ways. It is a function of the website, a way to put the practical application of the work across in a myriad ways, so that it can be understood by different people in different ways. But don't expect them to compromise their truth to "please" somebody, you'll have a long wait!

Visiting this site doesn't stop you looking at any other website, book, or teaching you feel to explore and it doesn't require you to stick with Openhand.

If you ask a question, you might not like a particular answer, or you might not get an answer, or you might disagree. Seems quite simple if you can look at it like that. I noticed Chris gave a very long and detailed answer called "taking responsibility" that was in response to your questions.

Finally, what can you notice about yourself if you have a "reaction" to something that is said? Is there an attachment that has been brought to light that you could let go of? Are you experiencing a need for a particular outcome that is driving you to pursue something, that if you participated in some introspection you would be able to unravel and release? If you can engage in this type of unfolding, then you are "self realising" and you are your own guru.

With love on your journey,
Lesley

great post Lesley. You explain it very well!

Ben

Just thought I'd let people know I had an interesting experience when I went to bed last night. Normally, once my head touches the pillow, that's me fast asleep for a good seven hours. However at some point (deep in the night) last night I briefly awoke, long enough for one sentence from my last post on this thread to run through my mind. The sentence was

"..... do this work because they believe it to be important to humanity to offer the message."

The word "believe" just didn't ring true for me, and having felt that I immediately fell back asleep. So I'd like to retract the above and state:

I choose to help Openhand because I know this message to be important for humanity.

I don't know other things, like how many people it will be meaningful to, or who will ascend because of it.

I do know that because of Openhand I have glimpsed the meaning and experience of enlightenment and know who I am and why I am here. When I first started that journey I considered myself to "be spiritual" but I had no depth of understanding. I couldn't relate to a lot of the concepts that Openhand was talking about, but I dedicated myself to my own self realisation and kind of blundered through and gradually, over time, there has been less blundering and more informed progression. What I can say is that it's my experience that by walking the walk you can know these things to be true from your own experience. Getting lost in intellectual debate can be a blind alley that keeps people in their comfort zone, it's much more challenging to go inside and be honest enough to strip everything away.

I know "it works". To witness the clarity this approach can bring is truly breathtaking, of course that's an important message! Still it's for each individual who comes across it to take from it what they will. From my perspective, it's felt like there's been quite a lot to understand because I could feel myself working through "stuff" to get to the understanding, then once you've embodied it, it seems much simpler. What I also know is you have to walk the walk for inner alchemy to take place, it doesn't happen when you live in your head.

Blessings,
Lesley

P.S. Thanks Ben, just seen your post!

Hi Lesley,

I found your posts really valuable, clear and inspiring... wonderfully expressed...

Thank you, Fiona

Chris, Trinity, Lesley and Fiona - Ben and Yulia too!

I am so sorry if you have been offended by what i've said. I would be hurt if i thought i'd offended anyone, but as i was writing i was thinking, "well who is there to be offended"?. I'd agree that the tone was a bit critical and i've definitely learned to take more time to frame my ideas more politely. Yes Yulia i think i have to learn to ask and not demand. So Sorry .

I also take on board your advice Chris to always check my mirrors. I do continually try to ask questions like 'how does this make me feel' and 'what does this say about me'. In each moment i get answers and am infinitely learning, it just doesn't seem to come quick enough for me...patients would help here. It's not always easy to see the reasons straight away though. Again Yulia another lesson for me to learn is the difference between feelings and emotions? I thought they were the same thing?

I suppose i can relate this to my childhood in a way. Emotional intelligence was never my strong point. I would say that my childhood was great but no parent is perfect. My father is sometimes angry, skeptical and has always been very critical of what i do/say. He is also very loving but maybe could have shown it more, while my mother was the adopted mother of all my school friends. I think it is never easy to say how your childhood affects your adult behaviour. I do think us Welshies are quite poor simple folk who work to make money and spend it all down the pub! I'm trying hard to break free from this and to show my children a more constructive approach to life. i.e. i am the only person in my family who got to university BA in English Lit, Lang and Linguistics (missed a first by 3%), although there are not many jobs here and the culture really doesn't support the intellectual or indeed spiritual type. Both are outsiders here, although things are slowly changing. I was also playing Chess for Wales by the time i was 15 but once i discovered sex drugs and rock n roll that was the end of that!

I still have questions though. Were none of my ideas worth taking seriously as you didn't respond to any of them. I can see that i must learn to see that what i say has something to say about me but it also still points to something in reality. What about for you Chris? I really want to hear about how all this makes you feel. It's hard to trust someone over the internet How does this discussion make you feel? Isn't the teacher/student relationship supposed to be didactic? I still feel that i shouldn't step out of role of student. Is it inappropriate to reverse the roles sometimes?

Do you think that Openhand will never need to be amended in any way? Does it have limitations?

When you say Chris that "Are you able to see how out of proportion your reaction is to what I'm accused of doing or not doing? Well yes and no. It does seem that i've reacted strongly to what's going on here. Although i would say that my last posts didn't come as any reaction to any of one of your comments. The reaction was a more general subjective perspective of my overall impressions, and the questions that have arisen for me as a result of using Openhand. I would say that they are very important - to me for where i am at this moment in my life.

My reasons for this are as follows: if i or anyone else was to decided to fully commit to your approach this decision should not be taken lightly. This would mean giving your whole self totally to someones ideas. Yes i am free to only accept what resonates but your ideas do take a lot of work to get to grips with all the vocabulary and concepts and once someone had fully engaged with these ideas surely new neural patterns would have been created and surely another box would have been created? This would have a massive effect on the quality of a persons consciousness. Obviously that person would still be free to get information from other sources but their fundamental life view would be constructed by your ideas. This is scary for me. Maybe i'm not trusting enough, or maybe i'm too skeptical, but i still feel the need to address these issues.

For this reason I am still interested in the 'quality' of enlightenment that a person would gain from following your approach whole heartedly. Lets say someone was going to devote their life to following Openhand. Do you believe there are differences in the quality of someones enlightenment?

I'm also interested in how you teach the subject of self? How does your approach compare with the comments that Yogi Ram. made on the self? What are your opinions on this in general? I'm not attached to anything Yogi Ram. has to say, as i'm not attached to any one teaching/religion/person, i'm just interested in how that particular paragraph relates to Openhand as it's something i read.

Lesley you say do i think i'm attached to a particular outcome to these posts, well i think the only outcome i want is truth. It's the only outcome i've ever wanted. You also say "Chris and Trinity, who live very simply, appreciating every blade of grass on Mother earth, and selflessly give many hours a day to the running of this website, funding its existence from the proceeds of the personalised courses they run for small groups of people. They never cease in their dedication to reaching ever more pure expressions of their individual truths". Yes, i see this and really admire it. I guess i just wanted to make sure that there was no trap to fall into here. Again it is a powerful tool that will make big changes in a users life, physically and mentally. And before i forget, sorry if i seemed to ignore your offer of a perspective at an earlier post, i.e. "I also think I know what you are alluding to quite a few posts back where you talk about a joint discussion you, me and Ben were having and you said something like Chris Jumped in defensively. I'd be happy to give you a perspective on that too if you're interested", of course i'd be interested. I'm just trying to concentrate on one thing at a time.

And to Ben, i guess that my questions do seem challenging but i really want to know that the teacher and teaching is sound. Isn't it good to ask challenging questions? I mean i'm quite new to spirituality, i'm like a child growing up and boy to children ask some awkward questions. I have a one and a nearly three year old and they challenge me every day. I've never done so much learning and growing in my life. You also mention that "Chris brings his message through very strongly with a passion that is quite compelling (and I feel its authentic). It can come across a little like this is THE truth, and not just HIS view. But are you open to the POSSIBILITY that in some ways it could be aligned with your truth too?! (or at least potentially a part of your reality)". Yes i'm very aware that i do align strongly with a lot of Openhand. I've said before everything that's written in the resources and the book ring true for me, and this is why this is all so important for me. It was just in the forum things can get misinterpreted. I still don't understand why Chris feels the need to 'market' openhand in a way that i feel is quite forceful sometimes, there seems to be almost and urgency for people to commit fully to this way - i sometimes find my self thinking, well Chris i'm sorry but i just can't evolve any faster, lol! To me this seems like an attachment to the success of Openhand? Surely if it was meant to be then it would. A lot of great authors don't get their work recognised in their lifetime. I understand passion and belief in something but don't passions have to be controlled. I suppose if that's your personality then i should just accept it.

I have to say that whilst writing this i have had a relisation, that my strong emotions in my last post came in reaction to me realising the immensity of Openhands influence and me being afraid to commit myself to anything...pazzam, a realisation had dawned...incoming, lol!

Thank you all for your patience with me!

All my love
Elle xxx

hello beautiful beings!
Thankyou for a most interesting and honest discussion. seagull, elle and yulia you all raised some interesting points many of which have resonated for me when i became introduced to the openhand crew and their approach earlier this year. i feel it to be very valid that this discussion takes place as others who read but dare not ask or speak with there authentic voice witness the questions and experience the range of responses (thanks to ben tas lei chris lesly and trin) which enables them to feel more or less confident with the openhand approach and the forum content. For me its valid and only natural for people relatively new to an approach question the key personel in this way .i also feel for the openhand crew who most probably field the same questions from people (me included )on many an occation and reply with as much patience and sincerity as they can muster. i am naturally very critical and mistrusting!? plenty to work with there. i feel that i want the people running any spiritual organisation openhand included to be walking on water 24/7 because i'm going to be investing my time and energy into the openhand response. as i write these words i'm witnessing another aspect of my falseself speaking.but seriously now thats where my need to question and be sure, put on a pedistal etc all comes from, another distortion i'm running all my own head stuff no body elses.i have had frank honest and constructively critical conversations with Chris at the last worshop i attended and found them to be exceptionally useful. in one exchange it was suggested that i need to be "caught out" or an aspect of self that is busy "doing " enlightenment is just another (shadow aspect of self) egoic falseself distortion a programme of being a good, helpful,healer,new age,enlightened one did this all begin as a little boy that craves love and attention does not want to be abandoned wants to be feed ?? etc etc you get the picture. not that this was new to my own honest inner enquiry however it was the first time it had been so called out and witnessed by another! Thank you Chris.(i trust my learning was but a reflection.) and my point is? I guess what i'm trying to say is that i believe i have felt a defensive edge to my interface with openhand however who is it whos noticing? or careing or having an attachment to openhand not being defensive of there total commitment dedication and hardwork. oh yes maybe its yet another aspect of my falseself that has attachment and control issues and thus more work for me to do yippee!
All of the above put simply demonstrates further that these forum discussions especially the more challenging less cosy back patty ones offer ever more oppotunities for personal growth on all levels no matter where you are on your path or indeed your position on the gateways poll .Thanks again guys.
hope that makes some sense very late
love and blessings to you all
see some of you soon
Matt xx

Hi Elle & Matt,

Thankyou for both your posts - and Elle, I just love watching people self realising!

Lots of points have been raised and time is short so as always, I'll only focus on the points I'm given to. There's an invitation to understand: when we connect, I'm connecting with you on multiple levels. People may be thinking and saying one thing in this plane, but frequently, they're saying and asking something entirely different on a higher plane - the soul is looking for a mirror, the ego tends to resist the mirror because frequently it doesn't like what it sees and so blames the mirror. So for a mirror like me, that continually presents a problem: how to balance what is actually being asked (by the soul) with what is being resisted (by the ego). It's just like walking through a minefield (which is perhaps why in this lifetime, one of my careers has been in defusing unexploded mines!).

So here goes (treading as carefully as possible). Elle, you're looking at the world through various filters. You ask...

"I am so sorry if you have been offended by what i've said. I would be hurt if i thought i'd offended anyone, but as i was writing i was thinking, "well who is there to be offended"?"

How right you are. But what I actually said was...

"But are you aware that your expression comes across as offensive?"

In an enlightened state, we still feel the action (in this case offensive action) but without being offended. So pain was felt, but not identified with. This is a very important difference. We're not trying to dissolve out our feelings to end up in some blissful, non engaged and non connected way. We're being fervently engaged in the whole nine yards, but not at all identifying with it.

In your original post, I could already see your upbringing and teenage years. I could see how a relatively oppressive and critical male (but in a place of thinking this was compassionate), had constrained your natural expression in the formative years. This formed as 'inner child identity' with a vast array of fixed neural pathways of conditioned behaviours (as in all of us, until we break them down). In your post, I could also see the 'Inner Teenager'. As puberty kicks in and our bodies are infused with hormones, a rebellion can take place against the victimisation of the inner child. Now we build a whole host of new conditioned behaviours and fixed neural pathways to 'protect' the Inner Child. So now we're reacting to the world not from clarity, but through these two filters. Then all of our interactions with people are influenced by them. They become our 'false self' or 'ego'.

You were accusing me of defensiveness yet asking me to defend myself! The less I defended myself and more submissive I was appearing to be (to your false self), the stronger and more emboldened your Inner Teenager became. That's what came through in the post - the frustration, distrust and almost anger against an apparently strong male figure. That was the part I was given to play. But not at an intentional level - it was the natural interplay between myself and your higher self.

The really important thing to hoist on board, is that in ANY engagement you make with people, "it takes two to tango". Someone would not be being defensive (or appearing to be so), if you were not being offensive. The invitation then is not to blame them for your own feelings. Instead continually ask "why is the mirror presenting itself that way?". If you keep doing this, then over time, you'll see very clearly both your Inner Child and Inner Teenager, be able to heal and dissolve them, and in so doing, accelerate your evolution at a phenomenal rate (it leads to "Transfiguration").

I explain this a great length in my book (Five Gateways). Am I being promotional? Well, Yes!!! I was given to write it for a reason and given to promote it where appropriate. Am I passionate about that? I'm more passionate about it than anything in my entire life. Why? Because I can feel the yearning in your soul and many other souls for a way through this maze. It's a collective yearning that's been growing for many thousands of years. It is your energy that's driving it just as much as mine. In my truth, Five Gateways is the answer to that yearning.

You ask...

"I still have questions though. Were none of my ideas worth taking seriously as you didn't respond to any of them. I can see that i must learn to see that what i say has something to say about me but it also still points to something in reality. What about for you Chris? I really want to hear about how all this makes you feel. It's hard to trust someone over the internet Smile How does this discussion make you feel? Isn't the teacher/student relationship supposed to be didactic? I still feel that i shouldn't step out of role of student. Is it inappropriate to reverse the roles sometimes?

Actually I did respond, you just weren't in a place to receive. And I'm NOT your teacher or ANYONE'S teacher. I'm an eternal student, evolving and growing just like anyone else. It may surprise you but Openhand began not by trying to teach anyone anything. I was running a web development company after my awakening. My consciousness simply drew people towards me. I naturally found I was able to catalyse the enlightenment in others. But not by trying to do that. It just happens through the exchanges that take place when people come into my space. I'm simply being me and that invites others to do the same.

And the website began simply as me sharing a point of view: it was an outward expression of who I was being. And I was asked by people to put on courses sharing my point of view and by people who wanted to sit in that catalysing consciousness. Even now, we don't promote as such, we just publish the courses on this website. When people apply to do a course, we certainly don't accept everyone. It has to feel right. In fact we turn quite a few people away. Many people are just not ready for such a rapid acceleration.

And with regards to trust, this is a biggie. Growing numbers of people are at a place where they can feel the integrity in what we do. The mutual exchanges that follow are deeply profound and enlightening both for us and the people we exchange with. So I NEVER see participants as students by the way, but ALWAYS as my teachers - although 'mirrors' would be more appropriate - as Matt quite rightly pointed out above. I'm interested in a mutual exchange that accelerates both. And to take it a step further, because I don't own anyone's enlightenment, I'm simply focused on my own and thereby finding the highest expression of myself.

If you or other people don't trust that, it would be totally counterproductive and a waste of valuable time to try to earn that trust. For what purpose? We have no need to teach, and no need to be accepted.

Finally, we don't compare our work with others. You may or may not believe this, but Openhand is coming from an entirely pure source. We certainly don't research and 'come up with the best opinion'. What we offer is constantly being downloaded from higher consciousness - even as I write this now. There's absolutely no attempt to influence, manipulate or control. Simply a constant inner resolution to find and attune to the best possible expression. But how can you or anyone else be sure about that? That would be the right question to ask. It's a question we invite people to ask ALL the time. We invite that in the seminars, workshops and on this site. We're are certainly not looking for a following. A following would slow us down and potentially skew our purpose. We're inviting people to find their own inner guru. We're not looking to lead, but to unveil leaders...

"This is love:
to fly toward a secret sky
to cause a hundred veils to fall each moment.
First to let go of life.
Finally, to take a step without feet."
Rumi

Chris

Thanks Chris
For taking the time to respond. Through re-reading aspects of the 5 gateways and my own internal work including much observing and questioning motives and intentions honestly (seen and unseen) of my thoughts, words and actions these last few months i have come to appreciate a deeper comprehension of where i'm actually at not were my ego would like to position me and of the work going on here at openhand and am very keen to continue my journey. needless to say your post firmly reflects these findings, i look forward to working with you in person again soon.

love and blessings
Matt xx

"Namaste"