Ayahausca, DMT and other Psychedelics - a Strong Wellness Warning!

Submitted by Open on Sat, 08/17/2013 - 05:41

It feels important to raise the topic of psychedelic drugs and their involvement in spiritual awakening. It seems to be a growing trend for evolving people to want to short-cut the natural evolutionary process by involvement with transcendental experiences induced by drugs such as Ayahuasca and DMT. Openhand's direct experience comes from 'picking up the pieces' with people who have inadvertently accessed higher dimensions too rapidly and then suffered the after effects of trying to integrate their experiences in a grounded and balanced way. Such practices have led people into paranoia and delusional reality manifestations. They come with a strong 'health warning'...

DMT: help in passing on

DMT is a naturally occuring tryptamine compound produced in the pineal gland (co-located with the third eye). It is activated through deep consciousness meditation and is released by the brain on death. It induces a euphoric feeling, and my knowing, is that it helps release the soul from the bodymind upon 'passing over', facilitating the transition back into the higher vibrational realms. DMT is also found in the naturally growing Amazonian plant Ayahuasca, which has been used for centuries by Peruvian Shamans for healing and bringing on transcendental spiritual experiences. It is probably the case, that used in the right circumstances by highly evolved and experienced people, such ceremonies can induce an expansive temporary view on the higher dimensions and can therefore be beneficial. They can inspire people to walk the spiritual path. However, unless people are properly facilitated with the integration of such experiences in an on going one-on-one basis, they can lead to powerful side effects, some of which, practitioners may not even be aware are happening.

Expanding too quickly

During our course work we've frequently worked with people who've suffered strong negative side effects from being involved in Ayahuasca and DMT 'ceremonies'. These drugs work by rapidly relinquishing attachment to the physical body and the realm of materiality. In so doing, one's consciousness is quickly expanded into the higher realms and especially the fourth dimension. As we've been discussing in our forum about psychic attack, the fourth dimension is awash with negative entities that have been intervening in mankind's natural evolutionary process for thousands of years. When we 'light-up' in the fourth dimension, we can draw these entities to us like moths to a car head-lamp. In itself that is not a problem, PROVIDING our level of evolution is high enough to deal with the negative effects - to be able to be awesomely okay under psychic attack. These entities will purposely read your karma and 'push buttons' in order to get you to release energy - they create fear and paranoia.

Level of evolution

The key issue is our level of evolution. What people have frequently found in taking these drugs, is that they are opened up to the higher dimensions too quickly, before they are ready. There's then the risk of activating karma, which after the experience, they are then unable to fully integrate. Once the effects of the drug have worn off, one's vibration is lowered again, the influence of the activated karma remains, but now there's not sufficient energetic sensitivity to access the source of the karma in order to process and integrate it. Unless, as I've already pointed out, there is consistent on going facilitation by experienced healers. Although practitioners have used Ayahuasca to release entities, the very reverse can happen if there isn't sufficient level of vibration - it risks becoming a 'magnet' to this Opposing Consciousness. Another tendency for some practitioners we've witnessed, is to disassociate from inner density. It's as if the consciousness passes through the density, accesses the expanded state, but then has a subconscious reticence to working through the density in daily life. It is here where behavioural patterns must be realigned in order to truly advance down the path. It can create all manner of internal avoidance mechanisms which can take years to resolve.

No short cuts

There are no short cuts to the natural evolutionary process of Ascension. It requires dedication to walking the path day by day. The journey invites us to confront our distorted behaviours and conditioned thinking in the daily interactions we have in life. Only then can we consistently and permanently raise our vibration into the higher plains. This approach may be less glamorous, requiring much greater patience and persistence, but this is how lasting spiritual growth is truly achieved. From the Openhand perspective at least, the mountain is best climbed step by step. Only then can we be truly sure of reaching the 'summit'... and staying there! Open Related posts:

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Comments

I took magic mushrooms when I went to Amsterdam with some old friends. I found the experience so amazing I took them again the next day and then again. But then experiences started to get more dark and then things didn't start to feel so good, being in the middle of Amsterdam certainly didn't help.

The exploration and experiences triggered a period of depression that stayed with me for years.

Looking back now, I get a clearer energetic perspective of what was going on when I took the drugs. I certainly went into a very expanded state of awareness. I was more open to seeing and feeling things I had never felt before. It felt amazing. This was the part that I really enjoyed and wanted to get back.
As I went on taking them, darker energies got stirred. Fears, emotions and really unpleasant feelings started to consume me and not only affected me mentally but energetically and physically. At the time they related to my life then, but now having seen the patterns, I feel relate to karma.

Because I wasn't in a position to see what was going on or deal with what I was feeling, they largely consumed me, and my physical and mental health really suffered.
I spent years visiting doctors, having tests, referred here, referred there and no one could actually diagnose what was wrong with me. And then one day my Doctor suggested that I was depressed and it might be worth trying anti-depressants.

That was a turning point for me. There was no way I was going to start plastering over the cracks by taking anti-depressants, and my inner and spiritual journey began.

I never took Magic mushrooms for anything other than to try the experience. It certainly opened me up to the world of psychedelics. In terms of them being used for spiritual growth I see them actually being more of a hindrance. For me it's about working with what you are feeling now, there is all the growth and experience you need in that.

David

I did psychedelic drugs (mainly mushrooms and LSD) quite intensely and for quite some time. I never had negative experiences myself but many of my friends did. One killed himself, two never recovered psychologically. Many are still in the loop or very depressive.

While it should be very clear that drugs can only have you look out of the window, but never actually walk out the door, it is also a question how much you are willing to pay for that glance at a wider reality. The idea of spiritual progress though drugs is just a lie in my view. So yes, it might inspire you to walk a spiritual path, to then aquire these states in a natural way. But at what cost?

With me it did so seriously mess up my energy that I do belive that I am still cleaning up the mess now, more then 10 years later. I had several meetings with masters and clairvoyants in my journey who just looked at my energy when I walked through the door and stated "Jesus, what have you been doing? LSD?" I can't see energy like that myself but it became quite clear to me, that these substances really come with a strong "spiritual health warning" and the way they are used and glorified in the spiritual scence is nothing short of naive.

Taking drugs is really violence towards your own energy and being. There is an organic path that we are invited to walk. A path where chakras and energy open when they are ready to open, when the nervous system and brain are ready for the energy and when the personality is in a place to digest the change in perspective and identity. It is the smoothest and the fastest way I see.

In spiritual terms a shortcut might easily turn out as the longest distance between two points... There is no cheating, not by taking drugs, not by powerful guru-initiations, not by energy transmissions, dikshas or the like.

And why would you mistrust the natural flow anyway?

David

After reading the article I felt just wondering why would somebody want to shortcut his spiritual evolution? Is it not about the journey itself actually?

To me it doesn't make any sense to see a "movie" with just an opening and end :) Personally, even that I am boohooing sometimes when the times are somewhat challenging, but I wouldn't want to miss the travelling itself, all the wonderful things on my way, all the challenges and the empowerments and learnings, all the people I've met, all the experiences and self-discoveries :( Why? It is hard for me to understand what's the joy in trying to jump... and where exactly?...

It seems to me that people have some idea that spiritual evolution has some final stop, but in my view, there is always a place to grow, to keep going, evolving, individually, collectively and on the universal scale, so where are people 'hurrying'? Where do they think they are going to get? And if they knew, are they sure they would want to get there at all?

And what I see here is just another symptom of this general misconception what is there "beyond the veil", what is spirituality? People take DMT, they get to the 4th dimension, and then they "don't like it". What did they think they will find there? Some rosy pinky world where they can be in constant bliss?

So as I see it, a lot of confusion is going on around... So putting it in some "shortcutted' way, I would say that, in my view, spirituality is not somewhere there outside, some other 'fun world', it is actually inside.

So if you don't 'like' the way you are now, and can't accept and work with what you have now, then at least one side effect will occur as a result of any kind of shortcutting: it is getting to see more of what you have now, in a more deep and intense way, without having the tools to deal with it, without having 'the muscles to lift the weight'. And from this place two things can happen: 1) lifting it anyway, and then it is tougher, harder and much more unbearable, i.e. you're going to have to 'walk' it anyway, but without proper preparation; 2) 'cracking', in all kinds of ways.

So I would say that the first thing to ask is what are these people exactly after when they are taking these things?

...

I've been thinking heavily on the concept of communion with the Self as one of many tools for increasing: vibrational levels. Everything is one, everything is you when you commune with nature, the Self, you step inside the oneness that you truly are. I think this communion is possible in many ways, from rolling on the grass, to grazing through a pasture or touching a tree and a deep way.

I believe the consumption, or partaking, of nature also gives us a path to this communion with the self. Whether it be eating a piece of fruit, smelling a certain fragrance, or perhaps consuming a natural substance that alters our awareness and perception in a perceivable way.

I agree 100% that there are no short-cuts. However, I think our expanded awareness can truly benefit from such communions. And awareness is the key here: perception, experience, and integration of thought and consciousness with those perceptions and experiences of awareness.

Chris and Trinity, I would be really curious to hear your feedback on these thoughts.

Ron

Hi Ron,

Thanks for your sharing. Yes indeed, communion with nature is a big part of the spiritual journey from our perspective - it plays an important role in the work we do here at Openhand. We see that it helps people attune to the soul and discover their true nature.

For me to comment further, you'd have to be more specific about your words... "consuming a natural substance that alters our awareness and perception in a perceivable way.

In reply to by Open

What I meant by "consuming a natural substance that alters our awareness and perception in a perceivable way" specifically, is the consumption of marijuana.

Of course, I believe this applies to anything that we "consume" which alters our body and perception through the release of chemicals(neuro-peptides) by the hypothalamus.

In your article it is clear that you are taking a stance against the adverse side effects that one can receive from consumption of heavy mind altering drugs. In saying that, if consumption of a drug, food, nature, etc alters our perception, yet, the alteration is held in awareness so that the very alteration itself is perceivable, is this a bad thing? Does this type of perception alteration take away from the experience and act of that specific communion? Does it add a layer of falsity to the communion?

In my mind, I am trying to make a juxtaposition between drugs or natural substances that alter experience in a state of "perceivable awareness" as opposed to altering awareness in an imperceivable way. So instead of completely changing our awareness through drugs like mushrooms, salvia, or DMT, making us observers with totally different glasses on, we can become an observer observing the observer through the "perceivable awareness" of an alteration of perception by consuming substances like marijuana, sugar, caffeine, etc.

These are just some things I have been thinking about as of late, and I was hoping that you, and others, would be able to share their insights, thoughts and intuitions on some of these ideas.
Thanks for your time

Ron

Hi Ron,

My personal observation by working on myself and with others is that we have everything inside ourselves in order to stimulate our natural spiritual evolution. It can be done by close internal observation through meditation and our daily interactions.

There is a natural way of being which is under the surface of identity and distortion - we have merely to peel the layers away in order to get to the truth about ourselves.

Speaking about 'soft' drugs such as sugar and caffeine, my observation is that they shift ones perception from the centre that you are. In addition, their side effects are continually shifting - you have to take more to get the same stimulus. The evidence we've observed at Openhand is that they clearly limit people from finding their truth.

Personally, I just cannot see the point. Such drugs have done so much to limit and constrain people. Why would you want to keep on taking them?

In reply to by Open

Thank you very much Chris for the insights on this subject. It has given me much food for thought, and has allowed me to make a very clear distinction between spiritual evolution and conscious experience of Consciousness as a physical manifestation.

I definitely agree that the use of any substance is no way to advance spiritual evolution.

Ron

Hi Chris,

It's always good to hear your perspective on things. I basically agree with you that Hallucinogenics can be useful if done under the proper circumstances. I have a lot of experience with them from years past. Most were positive and helpful but some not and I do feel that there was some residual energies to deal with that made day to day life a little more difficult to deal with. As a teenager I lived in a difficult environment. There was economic poverty, violence, drugs, crime, and a broken home with little to no family support. Between 14 and 16 I found myself in some very challenging situations. Regular visceral threats such as physical violence, lack of food, or fear of not having shelter. Many people who experience these kinds of things end up in the prison system or dead or just so damaged that they are never able to transcend the experiences. I came across LSD and Mushrooms at that young age and began having tremendous experiences that I believe helped guide me out of and above the negative environments that were consuming so many in my circumstance. It opened my mind in mystical ways and began my "conscious" spiritual journey. I truly believe had I never came across LSD that I too would've become part of the prison system. I opened my Psychic faculty and synchronicity became a daily reality. These experiences helped me navigate over the next handful of years through very tuff times without falling into the pitfalls of poverty and the dead ends of the street.
Now, the difficult part of it was that it made me very,very sensitive to the energies and my empathic ability was often overwhelming. It took me years to learn how to come to terms with it and I'm still learning how to deal with my sensitivities. I came in to this bodily journey with some unusual sensitivities to start with(saw beings as a child, had out-of body experience at 6, had visions of christ,etc) but I think that all of the LSD and Mushrooms definitely made ordinary life a little more challenging. I don't regret any of it but would not suggest it for most people. I've seen many people open doors they weren't ready for. Anyway, just wanted to share my story sense we were on the subject.

Peace & Love,
Brian

Thanks Brian - I deeply empathise with you. What a journey!

So yes, I hear that in a way, you're saying that the drugs not only took you into the darkness, but also awakened the possibility of walking the path out of it!

I would say it is definitely on the path for some people to explore these hallucinogens. It's like the Matrix. You can tell people about the dangers, but if people are truly attracted because of something they have to explore, they'll go into it anyway.

What the article is really aimed at, is counterbalancing the popular glamorised idea that there is a fast track to Enlightenment. That we can pop a pill and it all goes away. It doesn't!

It might give us a wider perspective on consciousness, but the risk is the experiences also embed subtle shadows that can be hard to remove later.

Ultimately of course Enlightenment must be through ALL circumstances and situations. We can find rightness no matter what has happened to us. But why not make the journey as straightforwards as possible? Why not walk on a level playing field?

Much love and blessings to you - thanks for a profound sharing.

I know it is a bit out of context, but mmm chemistry is chemistry hhhh

I never tried anything more intense than cigarettes and weed 0:), but it was enough for me to feel what any kind of intervention can cause to the body and the mind.

Trying to generate or induce spiritual experiences by some kind of external intervention, in this case drugs to me is just a form of control, trying to design and control the process instead of allowing it to unfold naturally, which IS challenging, and often I myself was like, why stretch it so much??!!! Why not just get it done in one big painful shot and that's it. But on my path, in my experience, I was shown so many times, how hard it is to integrate even tiny shifts in consciousness into the body and every day life, and I've come to realise that the body knows, and the universe knows and my soul knows what I can take, and I learned to feel love and gentleness of the slow progression.

Also, the warning, to me, is about initiations out of the body. If the body can't take the expansions - then there is no real progress. Spirituality is IN the body, in this plane, nowhere else. I know a couple of people who were allured by the energetic experiences and are stuck now somewhere in upper planes and just can't go down, can't get back into the body. They are now having really hard times and hard work to do...

Also, to me, it is important to look on the other side: trying to fix or suppress the 'spiritual' experiences (because everything is spiritual) with psychiatric or any other drugs, especially the painful ones.

I had a really wide and prolonged history with all kinds of psychiatric drugs. There was a period when I took ~12 pills a day. This is the way of our society to deal with what's different. To numb it all to make us fit and be 'normal'. And of course, I cooperated, because I was convinced I was sick and needed help. I was diagnosed as borderline disordered, all kinds of words like depression, anxiety disorder, suicidal something, self-injury... I had a really long list hhhhhh And I had no idea what it was really about.

Later on I needed to undergo years of tough rehab, detoxification and teaching my body and mind to deal with the states and arising impulses, after years of being numbed and neutralised and constantly sick, tired and suffering from endless side-effects. In other words, 'lost' years.

So I know that things can be really tough and it seems that only a magic pill can help sometimes, or some kind of drug to make the pain or some horrible state to go away, but there IS another way, even if we can't sit and hold.

For example, I had very intense impulses of self-harm and usually couldn't resist. It turned into an addiction at some point. Then I tried to fight it and was running to take an anti-anxiety pill and zombify myself for a day or two. But then I found a trick - putting my head into the cold water and it worked! And later, after beginning my spiritual path consciously, I was more and more able to deal with things and over years I am now able to experience any kind of horrid states, maybe uncentering a bit, maybe getting lost in the accompanying emotions, but I am not completely lost in it all and can handle.

In short, I believe that anything, any kind of mental 'disorder' or state can be dealt with, and people can be taken of medications over time, including weed, which many say is 'nothing', it is natural, but I believe that if I need some kind of fix on the outside, or use something to make it easier, it can be something natural too, like food or sport, then over time all these things will just have to go, when we are ready, of course, when we have a sufficient trust, surrender and ability to hold the experiences without being consumed by them.

I felt it is important to mention this side too.

Hello I would just like to share my perspectives on this topic.

For starters I feel the word "drug" it to broad, and to charged a word to use in this context. All drug really means is any chemical that effects mind or body. This could apply to bananas, and heroin. Though most people relate it in a negative way to synthetic chemical compounds.

I will just share my path, in hopes that it will add to this discussion in a positive way. I first became interested in power plants the year after graduation of high school. Consciousness, spirituality, and exploring my human experience became a large part of my life. I took a unique approach to the topic though. Living in the information age there was vasts amounts of information about the traditional use of power plants, and I heavily delved into my research of shamanism. After I felt I had fully prepared myself, and done my homework (Terrence Mckenna being a large influence) I got my hands on some magic mushrooms. My first experience was beautiful beyond words. I felt the depth of the teaching ability of this plant. For the three years after I ceremoniously grew, and consumed the plant with the intention of exploring myself, and growing. I considered myself well suited to the plant, and consumed it in high doses 7 or 8 times a year (also exploring Ayahuasca).

I found these profound experienced had positively changed me, and in my travels, and exploration of spiritual groups I discovered I had sensitivity's, and ability's. I admit I had a streak of arrogance too. Well that chapter of my life came to a crescendo of a end two years ago. I won't go into depth but I had a "experience" that rocked my world. I connected to a high frequency being (not on any power plant) and than was guided (or directed) to consume the largest amount of magic mushrooms I had ever taken. That was my first "bad trip" I had to quit my job, and my nervous system took months to fully recover. In the end though my life unfolded in a new, unexpected, and positive way.

That ended my time with power plants. Since than I have discovered that that path while having things to teach, had fulfilled it's specific purpose in my life. Only since than have I really began to activate my ability's (healing, and much more).

Would I be where I am now if I had never consumed them, I would say no, but I have no way of knowing. I honor that chapter in my life, and thank it for what I learned from it. The shear beauty of some of those spaces were amazing. I realize I am somewhat of an exception to the norm, and realized that many people can, and are abusing these plants. There literally are no short cuts, just unique paths we all walk. Each as valid as the next. Yes there are dangers regarding these plants (though I would like to make a point that they do not limit you to the 4th density, they can take you literally anywhere(just like meditation)). My advice is trust your gut, and go down the path your heart takes you. Do you need them for evolution NO, can the help you YES.

With the knowing that EVERYTHING has a positive, and negative quality; Explore... ♥♥♥

Hey Arthur,

Thanks for sharing - we always value sharing from direct experience. A warm welcome to you here on Openhandweb. :smile:

Just to respond to a couple of points, 'drug' is just a word, like anything else. It's the meaning each individual attaches to it that counts. I simply used it because it's a descriptive term that people apply to these compounds. I have noticed that quite a few people who've taken them retract and react to the word though. They prefer to sanitise with words like 'medicine' for example.

Yes I totally understand the value such an expansion experience can have. Yet I think few people understand the limitations that come with them. Because one has reached an expanded state, which feels more expanded than previous, that doesn't mean they're fully expanded.

We could consider the bodily field like layers of an onion. There are many, in many different dimensions and to a greater or lesser degree the soul infuses them all. A drug can accelerate you momentarily from A to Z, but missing out most of the layers between. And when one 'comes down', the layers one has activated can still be influencing without people realising it. Plus when people then work towards moving naturally from A to Z, step by step, it can be doubly hard because they're so drawn by the higher layers, they can't access and integrate the intermediate ones. Some of these aspects of soul can then be lost for some considerable time, perhaps indefinitely, and its going to seriously decelerate their ultimate Ascension. I speak from direct experience of people who suffer this problem.

And I thankyou for exemplifying my point that once we have touched the 4th Dimension, we attract entities like moths to car headlights. The thing is that these entities are so subtle, most people can't feel them in their fields. They take up residence there and affect people's thoughts and emotions and they don't even know it. It's like a filter that becomes a part of the everyday waking experience that they can't distinguish from authentic reality. The entities bleed energy and ultimately will cause the host to become either self-destructive, or building subtle layers of identity that can be almost impossible to remove. Like making you feel really good, but then slightly out of the body so the soul can't fully integrate.

I'm not speaking from the intellect here. I'm speaking from direct experience in working with several people who've regularly taken LSD, DMT, Ayahausca, Magic Mushrooms. They ALL have serious problems accessing truly expanded higher - but intermediate - dimensions afterwards. And these problems can take many years to iron out. Plus having expanded more through meditation and direct experience, I can actually SEE and FEEL these entities. One guy who had taken Ayahausca several times over a couple of years had about a dozen hanging around him in his field. He had no idea they were there. It took a huge amount of energetic work to remove them. His character completely changed afterwards. And this I've seen several times.

So yes, every road is a road to Enlightenment. But personally, I'd rather help people not waste their time down blind alley ways that may at first look and feel good, but nevertheless, blind alley ways they are.

Hi Chris;

In May of last year, I went to the peruvian amazon and did 7 ayahuasca ceremonies hoping for spiritual growth and for help with a severe addiction to alcohol. At that time I owned two houses and two cars and I was married with three young children.

Shortly after I got back from Peru I went into a complete downward spiral. First I lost my drivers licence for driving drunk (something I never used to do), then I spent a week in a hell hole of a jail. I took a leave of absence from work to try and deal with the resulting depression.

after a while with no income we had to sell the big house we lived in and my alcohol addiction continued to get worse with dry periods followed by intense binges. My wife had seen enough and divorced me earlier this year and to top it all off, in August I was fired from my well paying job of 31 years.

I`m not sure how much all this has to do with the ayahuasca, but I can clearly remember in one of the ceremonies my skull opening up and several downloads or implants going into my exposed brain. Right now I feel very foolish knowing that on some level I chose to experience this hell and I really dont know where to turn next.

Currently I am off the booze and attending several AA meetings a week and practicing meditation daily. I am also taking RNA drops. This is not a drug, but rather a supplement. Have you heard of it? I would love to hear what you have to say about these drops

Thank you,
John

Hi John,

Thanks so much for having the courage and bravery to share - you stand as a testament to the 'designer-down-to-peru-quick-fix-spiritual-enlightenment movement!' As I said, it's a big thing out there right now and it detracts people from doing serious spiritual progression.

But now this has happened. Where to go from here? As always there IS a way forwards. And it feels to me like you're following the right path now. I've worked with Alcoholics who then went onto the AA plan. I am deeply impressed by the approach, as long as you realise there will come a day when you need to move away from it. It's the point where you are ready to move beyond identity - beyond the old identity of being an alcoholic.

I don't personally know RNA drops. But I assume they're something to do with repairing the amino acid protein uptake within ones damaged DNA?

My immediate intuitive feeling is that its a good repairing bridge.

So you've had this monumental experience. What can you learn from it now? Can you put the idea that something negative has happened to you behind and start from there? From step 1 and progress step by step.

When I stepped onto the spiritual path, I too lost two houses, my family, most of my possessions, my car and my business that I'd built up successfully over several years. But I didn't see this as negative. I could feel the expansions of non attachment as each fell away.

So the key is to keep exploring this moment now. Totally accepting it. Not judging yourself. What's happened has happened. How can we progress from here?

Much love, empathy and support to you.

Hi Chris I saw your article on the DMT health warnings on another website and wanted to share an experience I had using DMT.

At the time I had been a practicing Tibetan Buddhist for about 10 years, though I wouldn't consider myself an accopmlished meditator. I was however sensitive to energy and am trained in Reiki.

During my DMT experience, I traveled quickly past the tunnel and geometrics and came to a place where I saw the flower of life grid encompassing my field of vision. I thought to myself 'the grid is the base of all creation but for some reason this grid feels like a cage'. I then saw the Hindu goddess, Kali, take a sharp weapon and shatter the flower of life grid. In its place appeared black space, a completely black, empty, void. This blackness began filling my 'body' and chakras. At first I was frightened and tried to fight it with visualizing white light because in my mind, black was 'bad' and white was 'good'. Then I realized that I needed to stop fighting and labeling black as 'bad'. I became one with the black, empty, void.

Then I became aware that I was in a brightly lit room, and there were white figures hovering around me. It was as if I was on a table and a light was shining down on me. The figures began to develop distinctive almond shaped eyes and I realized they were the gray ET's that were associated with abductions. I never saw them distinctly, but it seemed they were wearing all white and all I could see were their outlines and the large almond-shaped eyes. I saw that they were removing an artificial object from my abdomen. It was shaped like a vesica pisces, (kind of an eye shaped object) that had an orange/blue orifice in the middle where the iris would be in an eye). This center became a mouth with teeth that was part of some kind of living appendage. As I saw them working to remove this object, I told them that this object was not mine, did not belong to me, and that I never wanted it. I told them that I was returning it to them and that it belonged to them, not me. That was the end of my DMT experience.

Have you heard of anyone having similar experiences? Thanks

Well, I'm almost blown away by the people popping out of the woodwork in this thread - where have you guys been hiding? :smile:

This is such a powerful experience Kevin in so many ways. It defines and supports so much of what I'm speaking - including the entities that you so accurately describe.

So dealing with the experience piece by piece, this is my interpretation: the 'flower of life grid' represents the 4D field itself, except constrained within a grid of energy - the matrix - which limits people and holds them down. Kali is indeed one of the energies helping break this grid, as with shiva and actually Lucifer too (the bringer of light through the exploration of darkness).

The black empty void is the source of the universe itself. It's the void of pure presence and can be very scary when we first touch it. But as you successfully realised, you allow it to become you until it consumes everything, then you are it.

So the beings you encountered were very interesting. They are either one of two things: either the entities themselves - what I call Opposing Consciousness - which are 4D Annunaki whites (from which the greys became downgraded cousins), or what you experienced was benevolence playing at being these entities, showing you what you'd previously experienced. Which was to have energy implants inserted in your field (which happens to most people). Again your response was perfect - your force of will returned it to them. Except it felt too easy how you describe it. I sense you were being shown an educational experience by benevolence.

An extremely powerful experience. When I work with people, I'm working constantly at this multi-dimensional level. I see the entities in their fields, I feel the implants and I help work to remove them just as you described.

Thanks so much for sharing.

In reply to by Open

Thanks. I have only shared that experience with 2 other people, and neither one really had any input or guidance. So do you think I am free of that implant? I haven't done DMT since, but I am curious to follow up to that experience and see what else arises.

Yes you indeed raised some very valid points. Everyone should be fully informed of the possible risks involved in consuming these plants. Many in the western world love the idea of quick fixes, and instant gratification. These plants can sometimes present themselves in this way. There is indeed a lot of damage happening to peoples energy system in associations. I don't blame the substance, rather the culture many of us in the west live in.

As for connecting to 4th density beings, and getting messed up. Well that happens with channelers, and meditation alike. You can also get messed up by a 3d being coming into your life with bad intentions. It really is all the same. Developing your ability to discern, and stand in your power as a divine heart centered being is the most important thing. I have come across being all the way to the 11th dimension I wouldn't want in my life.

My guess is that you have come across some people that had problems, took these substances, and still had problems, or even worse problems. Such will often be the case.

There is no right or wrong to this issue. Just personal choices. My hope is that those choices can be as informed as possible in the full light of honesty, and integrity.

What I sense is that you were shown a metaphoric vision of what these implants are and how to remove them. The key is that the implants are at various levels of frequency and there's no point removing them until you can actually feel them. They can only be there because of insensitivity. And as we feel them, then our sensitivity has increased to the level we can do something about them. It's likely you'll have more, but don't worry, so does everyone else!

They will be removed naturally over time as your vibration rises.

Here's an article I wrote on it a while back...
http://www.openhandweb.org/281111_energy_implants_and_how_remove_them

I feel ever stronger that the use of psychedelics for spiritual growth or just recreation is a dangerous alley to go down. As I mentioned in an earlier post I have taken "magic" mushrooms a number of times and although yes, I did have some very expanded, multi-dimensional experiences, the negative impact that it has had on my life and spiritual journey has been tough.
It feels as though in the expanded states I experienced, my consciousness artificially touched higher levels, and in doing so touched the plane where karma is held. I believe this opened up a doorway and allowed karmic filters to overlap this life, but because my center of consciousnesses was not in that place, I couldn't process a lot of what was activated. So when I did arrive back to earth, I had an unexpected amount of deep confusing pain with me.
I am only now just understanding what actually happened energetically, and in some respects still picking up the pieces.
My advice would be not to go down the route of mind altering substances in any capacity. There are no shortcuts in this journey, just long ways round.
David

Now am am fascinated. I am very interested in implants (or energy modules as I like to call them), I work with removing them and synthesizing them in my sessions (among other things).

Oh yes I have them too, In fact I am working on getting one cleared I have had most of my life right now. How cool! :)

It is indeed a fascinating 'story'. It leads back to the seeding of mankind here, why and how it all went horribly wrong. Yet is now being resolved. I'm writing about it at the moment, I'll be sharing my experiences with this Opposing Consciousness, having had countless close encounters with them.

Entheogens have a role as "gateways of perception". They show us what is beyond "normal" consciousness. In my experiences taking magic mushrooms, many times, many years ago, when taken in a suitable setting, with an appropriate attitude (that of spiritual seeker), they kick started me on my spiritual journey. Through them I was taught many things, most significantly (in the context of this discussion here) that true spiritual progress requires a natural drug-free approach of working on the self through meditation and self checking. It was made clear to me that lasting enlightenment cannot be reached through simply taking any form of medicine. Drugs distort our experience, and damage our psychic auras, but they did play a valuable role for me: that of letting me peek through the "doors of perception."

So, I agree fully that true spiritual progress can only be made through being "clean" and working towards ever-increasing purity of the self (through facing and releasing, bit by bit, what Eckart Tolle refers to as "the pain body"). The first steps, for me, were becoming vegetarian (then vegan), and learning to meditate - both of these I started during my entheogenic phase, and it was only then that I started getting answers to my questions. As I said, these answers soon told me to drop the drugs.

However, I do not think it is helpful at all when people who have had no experience of entheogens dismiss them, or rail against them. For me, entheogens played a vital and very helpful role in my spiritual journey. I am very grateful for them, and I am sure many others can benefit in a similar way. The important message is not to avoid them at all costs, but to be prepared when/if you take them: the right setting and company, the right attitude (spiritual seeker, not entertainment seeker). And, be aware that there will be a comedown period, when the absence, in everyday life, of the elevated consciousness that was temporarily induced by the drug, can hit you hard. "Normal" consciousness can seem very flat, dull, and empty, after entheogenic experiences.

I have learned that the only way to bring the elevated consciousness permanently into your everyday life is through spiritual effort, without drugs. But the drug experiences taught me that!

We all have different paths, different ways of getting there. But, the basis for lasting enlightenment is purity, not medicine. We get there through intense meditation, not through intense medicine. This requires a lot of time and effort. There is no quick fix.

I just felt to add, that, in my experience, even if I released an entity or an implant, it doesn't mean they won't come back.

With me, both came back , because I didn't complete the inner work, didn't let go the root, what they are sitting on.

The thing is that I found they can't have a hold on me unless I am holding them myself. And I am holding them for a reason. It is either I use them as a veil because I am still unable to see and process some truth about myself, or face some aspect of me OR because I myself want to control, manipulate, shape something, or am afraid of and resisting something, some kind of experience/outcome, in my present or future.

So to me there is no point to release them, they will come back, I myself will 'happily' draw them back, unconsciously.

To me, I keep finding out and becoming more and more amazed how whatever is happening and whatever I am encountering or experiencing is actually all about myself. It is ME all around, attracting, creating and doing all these things. And I can feel a personal responsibility for both my AND collective experiences, and even experiences and processes on the universal scale.

And the more I look at the situations in this perspective, the more efficient my process is, the clearer I see and the better I can move through the blockages and the less I want to get rid of anything on my path.

So when I feel an entity pulling me by my tail: what am I looking at? At "I am having an entity and have to get rid of it?" OR "What is that it is now pulling me by? Where is that tail?".

I feel that in general, letting go of control and manipulations making OC's effect much weaker, so why to fight the windmills when what I feel I am really here to do is to actually find myself.

I have also realised that entities are there, just like parasites and viruses are in the 3d world.

They are always there, but they activate only when the 'immune system' is weakened, when some part of the body is not functioning properly and they can destroy me only if I allow them to and do absolutely nothing about it.

So with years I learned that when I have herpes, for example, I don't try to heal the wound anymore, I take care of the whole body, detox it, boost my immune system, realign the body, balance it, and take a look what made it burst out in the first place and what it is saying to me on a deeper level. Why is it here now?

The same with OC. I don't take care of the entity, I look at the root, at WHY is it here, and, at the same time, strengthen the overall energetic state, realign, rebalance, recenter, etc.

We are not just what we feel in our bodies, we are energetic fields too. And treating the energy field is the same as treating the body. Like we keep some hygiene with the body I feel the same about the energetic body: making sure to clear, cleanse it, let it rest, balance itself, etc.

In this sense, it is hard to me to see how the drugged body and messed up energetic system can allow that. Maybe one can see/be shown certain things, possibly because benevolence finds its ways through everything, if the being really wants it to, on the consciousness level.

But, I, personally, can't see how one can acquire the level of embodiment, awareness and a choice-making when being bio-chemically affected, especially constantly. The system is out of the natural balance. I can't imagine how one can consciously work in this state :|

But I don't know really. I never tried.

Thanks for some great wisdom Yulia :wink:

It's my experience entirely. An entity will return or in another guise unless the person themselves has first made the realisation they needed to. That's why Openhand does not offer implant removal as such. Instead we work to help people raise their vibration and self realise. We help activate and energetically point to the implants and work with people to remove them themselves.

You say...

    personally, I can't see how one can acquire the level of embodiment, awareness and a choice-making when being bio-chemically affected, especially constantly. The system is out of the natural balance. I can't imagine how one can consciously work in this state :|

Haleluyah! This is exactly what I'm trying to say. Both Trinity and myself have encountered a number of people who've had such psychedelic experiences, opened up to a degree, but are actually completely unaware of how their field is being affected at the subtlest levels. When you look into their fields, they're pretty messed up and can take years of corrective procedure.

If that's your path to enlightenment, fine, go for it. But make no mistake, there will be many hidden steps, many hidden traps, many concealed fragments of soul that could take a long time to recover.

I do agree with most people here, I do also wanna share the path I have taken and various drugs I've done on it.

There I was at the age of 16, pissed out of my face chasing girls around the parties I went to. Girls that were in equal states, and all I ever lived for was to actually get drunk nothing else, but then something happened.

I smoked some weed, and that was it I changed, suddenly alcohol became shit. But more happened, suddenly I stopped going to parties chasing drunk girls. naa that stoped and what happened was, that me and my friends would get some weed and blaze it every weekend. But more than this happened, the intergrals I was doing at school became interesting, physics seemed like this cool thing about the universe and the stars, plus I was no longer doing the homework because my teacher would yell at me if i didn't, but because I found it interesting.

And it doesn't end there, music. Music became something else, ahh the melodies I would encounter, coupled with the smooth basslines and the rolling drums of a newly discovered genre, named Liquid Drum & Bass. I would sit there looking at my youtube subscription box for new tunes. And if it was empty I would look for new channels that would upload this music. Back then youtube was begining to grow and it was a small community, the largest channel of the music I liked had about 6000 subscribers, and the average was about 400 (now there's about 30 channels that have +30 000). Nothing compares to the moments, at which I would find a new tune I liked. I would sit there, completely still listening for the next note, for the next drum, for the evolution of the bass and finally, for the breakdown. The awsome tingle down your spine, the places my mind would just wonder, the fantasies that would run in my head. Just the memories bring tears to my eyes.

But it wasn't just music that I discovered on youtube, I discovered conspiracy theories etc.... and eventually spirituality, along with this wonderfull website. And now I know that if I didn't smoke that first spliff, I would still be chasing drunk girls at parties and I would now be going into banking.

Next I'll share an experience of mine on acid. There I was bobbing along to some tunes, thinking about the universe next to my friend. Note that were on some synthetic acid (not LSD) and this type of acid makes your brain very suspetable to the electromagnetic radiation caused by someones thoughts and because my friend has done a LOT more acid than me and he knows this. He basically has the ability to pick up people's thoughts whilst on acid (i.e. he knows what your thinking) and he's there just analyzing my mind, trying figure out what he can use from it in order to better himself, but suddenly I decide to take a deep meditative breath. And I manange to still my mind to such an extent that I am now able to pick up his thoughts. So here we are communicating telepathically to each other, and coz we are on acid, we completely short cutted the way forward (temporarily) and guess what happens when we look at each others eyes? aa well we become one, literally one mind with two bodies. You know the saying people are a mirror for you, yea literally. When ever I/WE tried to move my hand to the left, the other body would do the same completely mirroring you. Coz when I/WE gave the command "move hand to the left" I'm giving it to both bodies. Got the hand of it after about 4 minutes.

Now the benefits of telephathic communication is, well it's a bit hard to put in words but you feel what the other is feeling exactly, feelings of touch/pain/pleasure and also emotions. If you visualize something the other one sees it. You attempt to make both bodies as comfortable as possible because, well it's just you, both of them. You are not two seperate minds but just one that controls two bodies, and this is what the egos of everyone is afraid of, I believe. Because your power to not give into the egotistic desires doubles because two minds have joined into one, but the power of the egos just remains within each individual body.

And now I find it quite a shame that I've transended weed, coz still nothing compares to those moments at which I would find a new Liquid Drum and Bass tune, not even this experience. Now weed doesn't even get me high, just makes me close my self of from the world and sit in loneliness. Finding new tunes is good, but it's not the same. I think this acid experience shows my way, combining the medidative arts with mind altering drugs. Or not, I dunoo. I'm studing maths and physics combined at university. hmm interesting

Love & Peace
Rayko

It is possible to run the idea a negative force may be at play here, but that is all I can honestly ever determine, it is a possibility but that is all. The raw data suggests if there is evil its got an uphill battle. Ive never experienced it and so it remains a possibility but that is all. As the sacred vines presented themselves to me when they determined appropriate. It was never with the intent of being a short-cut rarther when the time was right to utilise the available gifts. just the next step.
It seems premature to make a determination on their role based on what mite be a bad outcome. Especially if it doesnt come from direct experience. If that is the case a good outcome may result in the unimaginable. An acceptable risk for me.

This is all so very interesting - its rare to hear of others experience taking psychedelics. My experience of taking LSD quite a few times is mixed. My fist 'trip' was so amazing, expanding my mind into the beauty and connection with all of life. My senses were very acute, I could see wonderful coloured auras around everything, I could hear probably about 10 times the distance I normally could, I could hear peoples thoughts, feel what they were feeling, I could see a blade of grass in great detail plus its aura metres away, I felt a connection with all of nature and all people. It was a really awesome experience and it opened my mind to the knowledge that there was a lot more out there than I knew. Looking back I can see it made me more open minded and know that things are not always as they seem and there was a lot more out there that the 'average' person had no idea about, I had experienced a different dimension. After taking LSD several times there was the one (and last one)trip that was not so good - it was like being completely out of my head and in a place of near hell - this took about 2 years to recover from physically and who knows what the long term effects have been mentally.

However, after that I did smoke dope - and I think 'dope' was the right word as the last time I smoked, I found that I could not hold a thought in my mind, it was very frightening, and when I looked in the mirror I was horrified to see a deranged person looking back at me!

I am glad that I have had these experience, well the good ones anyway, but the bad ones I most certainly would not wish anyone to experience them. Much love Myra x

Hi Myra, what you describe in your LSD experience is very much how a really expanded person would see and feel as a general state. One of the affects of these kinds of drugs, is that because they open you up really quickly, it becomes almost impossible to fully integrate. It also seems to cause many people not to want to go into their stuff. It can establish internal mental barriers to that. It's understandable if you've been suddenly dumped into the deep end of it. Or else what happens for some, is that they enjoy the expanded state so much, there's a barrier to going into their stuff in the future. Their consciousness subtly prevents them going there.

    It's why in our work, we help people confront it through meditation at a manageable pace. It's about helping people expand and integrate in a progressive, manageable way, that they can integrate directly into their lives.

Do you also see how you still judge experiences as 'good' and 'bad'? Rather than as a possibility to evolve past identity with them (past judgment of them)? I've often noticed this as a key barrier that you face. It feels like there's a fear of the non identified state of Pure Presence. Taking LSD could well be the cause of that. It's exactly the kind of integration problem I've witnessed in others and thus warned about in my article.

If that's accurate, the key would be to now consciously work to break down judgment about what is a 'good' or 'bad' experience. To break through these internal mental barriers that are clearly there; work to relinquish attachment as you are deep within (supposedly negative) experiences through your daily life. Work progressively into the negative experiences and embrace them as an opportunity to evolve.

It is clear to me, that such psychedelics can really set people back on their path, for a variety of reasons, and for quite some time. Not that you can't overcome it, yes you can, but you have to be doubly committed to the inner inquiry.

Open <3

Thanks Open for taking the time to reply - its helpful to have your view. Many thanks Myra x

I've been going through some significant changes in diet (going raw) and the benefits I am feeling cannot be overestimated. Reading through this thread makes me wonder if there is any such thing as a natural psychedelic. DMT for instance is in so many plants, that it has been suggested that it is present in all plant life.

Without processing DMT is an inert substance. When you isolate what food is available without processing you can see how eating can be a very simple and natural experience. We only have to consider the foods that are available in processed form to see that they are unnatural. DMT from any source is similarly unnatural.

Another plant source gaining purchase in 'New Age' circles is Eboga. Ebogaine treatment is offered in many parts of the UK as part of heroine and Alcohol detox programmes. And to great effect. It is used to 'wake' the addict up from what must be an awful existence. There are uses, I suggest, but ultimately they are all manifestations of OC control, are they not?

Writing frankly, I have been seriously considering using DMT for several months. During this period I have been guided to a better (for me) more natural diet (considerably more strict than my vegan diet). I intuit that this has raised my vibration. I feel more vital and dynamic, I feel like I am close to the flow ...

I was reading through a completely different thread when I was led to this one. This has provided the last piece of the puzzle and I see that nature provides what we need when we need it without our egoistic processing. Thank you so much for the guidance for your work and for your Benevolent Consciousness. <3

As I mentioned in my earlier post from last year I experienced LSD and Psilocybin Mushrooms a lot in my earlier life. Extreme conditions during the formative years created a lot of traumas and I have no doubt that those psychedelic experiences help guide me out of some pretty dangerous and life threatening circumstances. But I understood that it was just a tool and not a replacement for enlightenment and like all tools they to must be let go of at some point on the journey. We must be careful about "disregarding" the relevance of these types of tools yet we must also be intelligent about them and not fool ourselves into thinking that they will take us all the way to enlightenment not to mention the negative side effects if they are abused or taken in the wrong circumstance around the wrong people.
A couple weeks ago I was listening to Ken Wilber interview a very well known American Zen Master who was a student for years of a very well known and world famous Zen Master from Japan. The American ZM had been involved in the LSD scene in San Francisco during the late 60"s & early 70's. After he became a student of this world famous ZM he discussed his LSD use with him and he was very critical of it. One time at a group meeting with this world famous ZM, the American ZM asked his mentor if he could ask a question of the class and his mentor said yes. He asked the class, which was almost 80 students, how many of them felt that LSD use was why they had become interested in ZEN Studies and meditation? 62 of the 80 raised there hands in agreement. The world famous ZM never criticized the use of LSD again. Obviously, the American ZM who was just a student at that time eventually stopped using LSD and went on to become one of the most well known Zen Masters on planet earth.
In reading some of the posts on here I can see that there is some bias and judgement going on and that can be as detrimental to ones spiritual development as believing that LSD is a panacea for enlightenment. I have had many people over the years ask me to guide them through an experience yet I turned them down because I felt that it wasn't right for them. It has a place but not for everyone and certainly not for extended periods of time and some shouldn't never go near it.

Best wishes to all!
Brian Lee

This is a polemic topic - given all the warnings in this post - but it's relevant for me to explore it. It's worth saying that I'm in the pre-Gateway 1 experiences and I'm not advising anyone to take DMT.

Using DMT led me to a huge awakening and it "magically" made me find Openhand in the day following my trip. Of the psychedelics I've tried, DMT stands out for its purity. It simply raises your vibration for 10 minutes and then you come back. Other drugs like LSD require you to sleep, since they are much more "aggressive" to the mind.

My experience was very simple, since I took a few hits and didn't look inside myself - because I knew that if I did, my consciousness would journey far far far away from my body. It instantly made me clear that the Universe is just a playground of experience, ranging from deeply truthful and blissful ones :) to extremely hellish and fearful ones :(, and all of them were "inside" my body. This made me want to stay in the physical realm - who knows where the flow would lead me to?

Just after smoking, I felt immense peace in my heart and looked at my hands. I saw myself without any filters, just the way I am, and that made me think about all the times I treated myself badly or compared myself with others. I cried a lot - tears of joy, arising from seeing all the beauty that I've always been and will always be. It taught me a huge lesson on authenticity, which was "confirmed" by the posts I've read here since then. I could also sense the presence of my soul, coming from a "fire" inside my heart center.

Lately, I've been meditating on the feeling I had in the trip (back in June 2017). I simply dive into the memory of that day and try to feel all that boundless liberation, authenticity, joy, purity and connection with all things. This is also facilitated by a music that I was listening to at the moment, because I put that same music in those meditations. 

And for my surprise, it's really working! Obviously, I cannot fully access the experience as I did taking the drug, as I only go as far as my current level of evolution allows me. But I do feel more surrendered than in normal meditations and my perspective on life expands too, as well as my inner sensitivity.

I just want to know if there's anything "wrong" in meditating this way. Some of you might think I'm looking for a shortcut, but I ask you in return: isn't living in 5D all about feeling connected, liberated and authentic? If I can access those feelings in an easier way because I have clear memories of them, then what's the problem? Afterall, we all carry that memory of oneness and all we're really doing in our meditations is grasping for it. I also know the final goal is not about the joy - it's about the nothingness. But in that joy I can easily become nothing in it!

Thank you for reading and apologies for the long text!

Eduardo

Hi Eduardo,

Thanks for sharing your experiences here. I'm glad you had a good experience from DMT. I observe that Hallucinogenic drugs seem to be coming more popular these days as a means of inquiry. Personally I wouldn't advocate them, because the states reached can be more solidly and permanently attained through meditation. And there can be many side-effects. One person I know for example, went into quite intense paranoia from a DMT trip, which badly affected family relationships.

But yes, I acknowledge some people have had awakening experiences from them, which then provided a vehicle to explore forwards. If this happens, I would say it's still essential to move away from needing the drug, and instead, working to embody the experiences you might have gained but without them. As you seem to have done Eduardo - yes, if the feeling has a sense of soul rightness to it, connect with that feeling, and work to embody it as a particular way of being. 

You asked...

If I can access those feelings in an easier way (via meditation) because I have clear memories of them, then what's the problem? Afterall, we all carry that memory of oneness and all we're really doing in our meditations is grasping for it. I also know the final goal is not about the joy - it's about the nothingness. But in that joy I can easily become nothing in it!

I would say in the beginning, yes, do what is necessary to get a sense of the mainstream of the soul. And importantly, something that you can keep accessing inside yourself, without needing some kind of drug to do it, which risks becoming dependency and shifting consciousness in a way that is misaligned. 

Once you're sure you're into the mainstream of soul, then yes, use meditation to keep attuning the sense of that. BUT it's also essential to say, that it's important to honour whatever experience naturally arises, even if that is the opposite of joy and happiness. Because within that density, will likely be some fragment of soul wanting to emerge. And if we simply 'plaster over it' with some alternative state, then the likelihood is to miss that fragment, and over time, create an inner polarity which leads to the building of identity - the false love and light syndrome for example.

Wishing you well with your inquiries

Open Praying Emoji

Hi Open,

it's good to know I can keep connecting with that feeling. The mainstream of the soul is still like the balloon in the example you gave in the book. Sometimes I catch it and sense the detachment and liberation, but if I don't be attentive it slips away. It's also a bit unpredictable, as sometimes I can feel it without meditating. I may be washing the dishes and then... "wow, I'm expanded!" - and the feeling remains with me effortlessly.

I don't intend to trip anymore. The steps are very clear now and it's just a matter of keep surrendering to the process... but thanks for the warnings!

Nasmate
Eduardo

Retrospectively, I feel embarrassed about my comments here. I was ignorant.

After 18 years of hard work and trying to "FEEL IT", fighting for it, surrendering for it, suffering for it, being pressed to feel and let go and being judged for simply being not able to, because, maybe somebody who got frozen in fear in the age of 3 simply can't, a plant helped me like nothing else did. It helped me really go into the my stuff, my darkness that grew to disproportional dimensions due to years of suppression and disconnection. It helped me feel things in the body, it helped me stay awake and not faint when getting close to the source of my pain and it helped my mind disconnect so my body could finally scream its screams fully. It helped me see things in the subconscious and gave me a touch of unconscious. Since then I feel very humble about my own and other people's processes. I don't think I am in a position to directly or covertly control others' path, not even by suggestion or warning. I can barely predict what I will have to go through in a couple of months from now, or even tomorrow.

I also lost the need to accuse anything or anybody, including cosmic scapegoats, for my own inability to face myself squarely and for being a human and thus being prone to abandoning myself, my body, my psyche and my feelings as a part of a powerful survival mechanism, as well as being prone to fall into mind's tendency to look for and create patterns and be driven to basic collective attractors. There is no need to blame plants or aliens for stealing our peace and power. We gladly give up on them for the sake of fake sense of "knowing" and "safety".

Another plant helped me feel how it is to feel safe, in the body, rather than in the mind, something I never experienced in my life. A couple of times is enough to get the body into the mode, to learn what it is like. So yes, we all have it inside, but some of us have very low chances to ever accessing that just by talking, thinking, reading or meditating on it. Some of us got severely disconnected.

In general, maybe it is wise to talk about things only after becoming a pro in them, or at least having a bunch of personal experiences, and collecting enough of diverse data from others' experiences to arrive at any conclusions, if anybody feels the need to at all.

There is enough material, actually, plenty of positive stuff on the web on this topic too. For example, a great, inspiring documentary also for those who are not intending to try psychedelics. There is a chapter on working with music and sound and "you are the medicine", which many here might resonate with:

https://www.gaia.com/series/psychedelica

There are also great books, such as https://www.instagram.com/p/BiX4RhhA-Jm/?hl=en&taken-by=mapsnews.

What I want to say here too, very important, that plant never measures itself with you, who's better, more experienced, more evolved, it doesn't brainwash, it doesn't pollute and confuse your mind with theories, it doesn't speak in mind's language. It doesn't create a field that it wants, intends, that it "thinks" or "feels" is good or right. It is what it is. Then it gets into the body and it works with your energy, with what you've got. Somehow, it "knows" you, it knows what you need and it acts in a kind of unique, tailored way. It speaks in the language the bodymind knows best - symbolic and archetypal, in visions, in sensations. To me, it is a much more evolved version of a facilitator than any human. A lot of noise just is not there and it clears the way. The rest is you communicating with the plant and your own bodymind. This is how it works when you work with the plant. People who are much more experienced than me tell me that they go to plants to "work with them", "to do the work", "to catalyse" (their words), to "reveal/see the hidden". There is a lot of respect and humbleness and care. And these people don't report being confused or "kidnapped" or victimised by entities. They work with what comes up and take responsibility. But this is how it works with those who WORK with plants. It is irrelevant to people who take stuff in parties, for fun, fool around, without even understanding what they're really going into. In this sense, I know that all my experiences serve me now at this point. I work with everything I've got and new tools as well.

By the way, many of the sensations remind and reconnect me to the experiences during the retreats and Openhand sessions. There is a lot in common. I just feel it more HERE, more in the body, connected to the feelings and sensations, and being connected to something very deep within me, rather than something outside me that something or somebody else created, which is totally okay and great, but is different in a sense that something deep within you drives the session. It works from within, from my own energy and nature itself. And amazingly, it holds within the urban noise. It somehow gets really anchored in the body, within the cells. So before I needed to run away to nature to get connected, to feel, to clear. Now nature is coming with me, with my body, into the city. And it stays. It becomes a part of me. It doesn't get dissipated after a couple of weeks and then leaves a yearning and a memory. And yes, the effect stays, it works with me for months after, but in a very gentle, soft way. It feels like it is completely aligned with my own natural energy, so there is no loss. There is integration and work, but it is not stressful. I don't experience disconnection, neurosis and dichotomy I was always experiencing after coming back to my every-day life from my escapes. Everything is coherent, grounded and stable. So in my case, plants are a blessing and a vital step in my healing and growth.

In addition, even synthetic "drugs" may be of use. I think it can be interesting to get to know about what MAPS does with people with severe, "unmeditatable", incurable post-trauma:

"One month after the second session, 68 percent of the full-dose MDMA group no longer qualified for a PTSD diagnosis".

http://www.maps.org/news/media/7158-press-release-mdma-assisted-psychot…

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/science/using-ecstasy-treat-ptsd-felt-like…

This movie might break some pre-conceptions too: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7155154/plotsummary?ref_=tt_ov_pl

It is like if someone had a cut-off arm, I guess it would not be too beneficial to meditate on it and sit and observe it for too long. The damage gets accumulated and can become fatal.

To finish with, I want to add:

1) "There will come a time when one will have to forget everything that one has learned", Sri Ramana Maharshi

2) Everything can be benevolent or malevolent, bring our light or dark, meditation too. Every word spoken can evoke a negative experience and energy in somebody, while inspiring somebody else. One word, even said with good intention, or one convincing session from somebody who wants to convince can inhibit somebody's evolution for years or even kill, better than dozens of LSD sessions.

3) Staying open, curious and even silly, trying, exploring things, keeping in mind that the world is much more complex and interesting than any idea, that people are different, that they need different things, that life works in miraculous and mysterious and DIFFERENT, unique for everybody, ways, and who am I to judge or have an opinion about it? I just don't know everything, and the more I know, the more I realise that I don't know, - this feels more real than having any solid or rigid theory or idea, to me. Plus, it bridges rather than separates. It says I am no better than anyone, and my way or view or path are no better than those of anybody else.

3) Mistakes, destruction and damage are inevitable in life and on the path. It is sad, very sad, but this is how it is, and it is okay. It is okay to make mistakes. We get damaged and we damage. But we also learn and grow, and we also help others, sometimes without even knowing (the best way).

Love, <3

 

 

Hi Lia,

I very much respect your inquiry here into Ayahausca. I can see that it takes people deep. However I still feel to sound a strong cautionary note to anyone considering taking it. And maybe my cautionary expression (probably one of the few) is also necessary to balance the inquiry. I'd like to make all aware of a couple of fundamental points/experiences...

You said...

What I want to say here too, very important, that plant never measures itself with you, who's better, more experienced, more evolved, it doesn't brainwash, it doesn't pollute and confuse your mind with theories, it doesn't speak in mind's language. It doesn't create a field that it wants, intends, that it "thinks" or "feels" is good or right. It is what it is. Then it gets into the body and it works with your energy, with what you've got. Somehow, it "knows" you,

You may consider the plant acts that way, and I would empathise, the plant itself wouldn't have the distortions you're speaking of, however many (probably most) are not considering, nor even perhaps aware of, what I would call the "Ayahausca Entity" behind the plant 'medicine'. Which to me, is a derivative of the very deceptive satanic consciousness.

I have knowingly encountered this entity several times now. On one workshop, I experienced a strong presence in the 4D field amongst the group. It felt quite expansive, relaxed and free (if a touch over blissed). This could easily have distracted me. However, I had particular attention at that time in the higher chakras - up to about the 9th density. After sitting in the group for some time, it became increasingly hard for me to keep the higher chakras open - they were all closing down.

I also experienced a strong intervention energy from 2 people in the group (only afterwards did I learn they'd both been involved in Ayahausca ceremonies. How was it working? What was it doing? It seemed to be working to draw energy and attention on the mental and emotional planes - binding a kind of community feel to it - and trying to sabotage anything that might challenge the authenticity of the those expressing (when being truly authentic, a challenge to authenticity is highly unlikely to push buttons).

The more I explored and felt into the intervention, I could see it kind of like bind weed in the garden - it binds itself around a particular frequency of being and hides there.

I ask the question, why need some substance external to yourself, or separate from yourself to realise soul? It leads to the next question: if you're not recognising an aspect of soul that you really feel you'd like to, how would you know it as soul when it comes in?

I would add I have no idea how widespread this particular entity is. Maybe it is limited - but I do know I was shown the experience for a wider reason. When you go deep into the field this way, there's an opening up to all manner of entities - some of which are very advanced and intelligent indeed. That's one key reason why I would advocate a more progressive, stepwise approach - you're following signs, synchronicity and resonances that let you know that it is soul which is truly integrating. And it makes you more coherent and stable in the field that you expand into.

I would add that if you have taken Ayahausca, simply to ask the Universe if more integration is necessary - or if what did integrate, was actually aligned. If we're honest with ourselves, the Universe will surely provide clarity.

Open Praying Emoji

 

I felt to add another thing about the integration - or general lack of it - that I witness going on from people who involve themselves in Ayahausca ceremonies. Ayahausca (and other psychedelics) might be a path some choose. But what's so often overlooked, is the intensity of shift that happens - the amount of karma that gets activated - would best require years of integration (with skilled support) afterwards (I feel to reiterate "years"). Not the customary hours, days or (often at most) weeks that actually generally does happen. If taking Ayahausca incorporated such intensive integration processes afterwards, then I could see that the rapid activation and cleansing might work. But it's kind of like jumping to the top of the mountain without all the integrational steps. There's going to be lots left behind to work on. 

I've worked with many people now who've been involved in Ayahausca ceremonies. On the positive side, I see a lot of karma can be activated quickly, yes. But also I've witnessed how the practice can seriously affect the psyche, but often in unseen ways - in ways that the person themselves doesn't even see. One person in particular springs to mind. He was a highly qualified doctor, who spent several years investigating it before actually taking part in a ceremony - he was meticulous and thorough - he engaged with Openhand prior to the inquiry, so I became aware of his intention to do so, and that he felt he'd found the best possible organisation in Peru, that combined yoga, and dealt with integrations for some considerable time afterwards.

My energy is very coherent. Which is why it's very catalytic. After returning, he could not sit in my field for more than a few minutes before his body would react in spasm. It was clear to me, that his soul had fragmented into the various karmic processes that had all activated together. And that they had not been integrated. It is my professional opinion that it would take years of concentrated meditation and healing to fully integrate the issues. 

Let me be clear, I am not arguing against Ayahausca if that is the path your soul (genuinely) chooses. But I feel given to offer the observations I've seen from my experience. In a dozen or so key cases, I have not witnessed one example that led to truly aligned soul integration. So my strong advice, is that if someone does choose to go down that route, to pay very careful attention to post integration. Personally I don't believe in short cuts - yes, I agree, you can accelerate the process, but that then requires increased integration attention, not decreased. It is not a short cut - because you cannot short cut self-actualisation. But I agree you can speed it up.

Namaste

Open Praying Emoji

To me, it generally looks like good and reasonably balanced advice from someone with experience Eduardo - thanks for sharing.

Open Thumbs Up Sign

Hi,

I wrote a lengthy reply, but then changed my mind.

Open, thank you for the perspective! It is a part of my exploration and decision making.

Eduardo, the article is great. This is what I hear from people here - responsible attitude.

There are several topics that are indirectly related, such as the beneficial vs destructive role of darkness on the path, why we need external/internal assistance and being ourselves and having everything inside seems to be not enough, and general view of the whole universal process.

I will take it to my thread and maybe we could discuss it one by one.

Hugs